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First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

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Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#831

Post by watwut »

refurb wrote: post #771
api wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we ever hit a point where nobody is talking about America being in decline, that will mean we are entering decline. I do think we’ve been in a down period when it comes to politics for a while but I am mid to long term optimistic about things getting better. This is not the first time we’ve had crazy massively divisive politics or populist crackpottery. Overall I do not think we are in any kind of terminal decline…

What other countries are rising? I mean China is an obvious one but seems to be struggling. Europe is in decline. India continues to struggle. If anything, the US has pulled even further ahead since 1990. Back then the USSR was a near-power to the US, but has fallen significantly since then. Since all power is relative, you’d need to see the US falling relative to another country. And right now, I don’t really see a…

China is gaining power as we speak. And USA is abdicating that power. Also, Russia seems to be a big winner currently, America will help them keep parts Ukraine and prepare for another invasion.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#832

Post by rightbyte »

api wrote: post #738
zelphirkalt wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My optimism for the US is quite limited, because they have kinda knowingly dismantled their own democracy, and are in the process of dismantling it even more, while the president tries as hard as possible to become a Putin-like dictator, and important decisions are made by tech giant owning oligarchs. A while longer and the US might enter a civil war or will simply lose all good will it had directed towards it in the…

The US has a history of hitting rock bottom every so often. First constitutional crisis leading to the replacement of the articles of confederation, civil war, Great Depression and the new deal, the Vietnam era, and now the collapse of the post Cold War order. I am not sure fascism will take here. Americans might think they want it until the fascists start telling them what to do. We are kinda starting to see that. W…

> For some reason trans derangement syndrome (TDS) still has a hold on people. I don’t understand why that particular thing works so well, even on some people you would not expect.

I think it work as good as it does since there are no trans people around most people at all. It is a TV thing.

Outside of big cities I have never seen anyone. Prevalence measures varies but in my 30k pop county there should be like from 3 to <1.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#833

Post by w0de0 »

petesergeant wrote: post #823
scheme271 wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH, 6 of the 9 supreme court justices are catholic so there might be some influence there although I think the influence is probably more from the somewhat uniquely American brand of conservative Catholicism.

‘The next Pope is from Chicago’ sounds like the kind of thing 1800s American nativists would panic about

Give Twitter another 24 hours to stew over his past ministry and his Peruvian citizenship, and one will find our modern Know Nothings making similar hullabaloo.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#834

Post by mercutio2 »

tptacek wrote: post #506
tart-lemonade wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thin-crust (or "tavern style" as some call it) has been widespread across the city for quite awhile. > As of 2013, according to Grubhub data and the company Chicago Pizza Tours, thin-crust outsells the more widely known deep-dish style among locals, with GrubHub stating that deep-dish comprises only 9% of its pizza deliveries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago-style_pizza#Thin-crust...

I'm not saying we own thin-crust Chicago pizza, just that deep dish was not a thing on the south side when he lived there (it wasn't in the 80s and 90s when I grew up there either).

I ate Edwardo’s several times a month on the south side in the 80’s and 90’s, as did a sizable number of my friends. This is back before it became a chain (I guess technically the south side location was the second location, so it was already a chain) and they decided to take the best pizza on earth and make it mediocre-to-poor for a mass audience, which I guess happened in the early aughts?

So there is at least an existence proof for deep dish very much a thing for south side kids when he was in the vicinity.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#835

Post by _a3ax »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #647
dragonwriter wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Opus Dei spends a lot of time discussing Rerum Novarum , honestly.

What do they discuss? There is an Opus Dei church near me and I always wondered what was up

Opus Dei is an extreme reactionary group within the church. Leo XIII was a liberal pope responsible for the social doctrine of the church (this text).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_Opus_Dei

Personal experience: when I was in high school in my country there was a teacher who was in Opus Dei. He tried to recruit students by leaving them a letter and inviting them to a "scholarship". I got such a letter, I was so excited. The school found out about that and investigated. We're a mixed-race country. The Opus Dei teacher has invited exclusively white students. He had invited top students #2 to #4 in my class by grade, but not #1, who was black.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#836

Post by aleph_minus_one »

dmayle wrote: post #653
javiramos wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You could educate yourself, you know, instead of trying to regurgitate something that someone else said that you thought looked clever. What would you call Americans? United Statesians? There are two countries called the United States in North America, there's the United States of Mexico, and the United States of America. People from the United States of Mexico are called Mexicans, and people from the United States o…

> What would you call Americans? United Statesians?

US-Americans

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#837

Post by graemep »

User23 wrote: post #801
kashunstva wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he is not "completely" American As for being completely American: dual citizen of U.S. and another country here. On each April 15, the U.S. still considers me completely American even though I haven’t earned a cent there in over a decade. So in an official sense, that moniker sticks to you like Super Glue. Granted, the new pope may have a wider scope of cultural influences than many, if not a majority of Americans,…

There’s a really interesting question here. Will the USA claim the right to tax the new pontiff? Likely answer is no, but legally the statute suggests yes. But who knows? There’s never before been a US citizen who is also a foreign sovereign.

Two things:

1. Does the Pope have significant personal income? 2. Does, which what I think you are getting at, the law apply to a head of state?

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#838

Post by graemep »

mcv wrote: post #812
afavour wrote: post #97

> "Cardinal George of Chicago, of happy memory, was one of my great mentors, and he said: 'Look, until America goes into political decline, there won't be an American pope.' And his point was, if America is kind of running the world politically, culturally, economically, they don't want America running the world religiously. So, I think there's some truth to that, that we're such a superpower and so dominant, they do…

I've heard people expressing disappointment (or triumph) because there's an American pope now, as if that would somehow strengthen Trump's position, but I don't see how. Trump doesn't control him and the pope owes no allegiance to Trump, but as an American pope, I think American Catholics are more likely to listen to him, and I think his moderate views could do a lot of good to the extremism of US politics.

I agree. There is no reason to expect the Pope to just back the country he is a citizen of, let alone the current government of his country. Popes have not usually done so in the past.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#839

Post by sebastiennight »

dragonwriter wrote: post #662
dmayle wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could educate yourself, you know, instead of trying to regurgitate something that someone else said that you thought looked clever. What would you call Americans? United Statesians? There are two countries called the United States in North America, there's the United States of Mexico, and the United States of America. People from the United States of Mexico are called Mexicans, and people from the United States o…

> There are two countries called the United States in North America No, actually, there aren't. > there's the United States of Mexico, and the United States of America. No, México’s formal English name (which is an exact literal translation of its Spanish name) is United Mexican States (it is Estados Unidos Mexicanos not Estados Unidos de México )

> Estados Unidos Mexicanos

I think this would translate to Mexican United States ; you're mixing up the word order.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#840

Post by graemep »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #648
PortiaBerries wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never ceases to amaze me how poorly catechized the majority of cradle Catholics are. I don't intend this to be directed at you, but it's a standing joke among traditionalist Catholics that "I was raised Catholic" is the preamble to a statement of either ignorance or heresy.

For most of history 99% of Catholics could not read, much less own a Bible. The fetishization of theology is not necessary to be a good Catholic

Bibles were the first book to sell in large numbers when the printing press was invented.

Before that the church did expect at least priests and monks and nuns to be able to read the Bible, and there were a lot of them.

Most is strictly true, but you are talking about a millennium between the clear primacy of Rome and the invention of the printing press, and half a millennium since so its not hugely more.

Finally, historically most people could not own books and had no to limited literacy. Literacy is not necessary to be a good anything, but its definitely better to be literate and have access to things to read.

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