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First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

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Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#801

Post by User23 »

kashunstva wrote: post #720
GuB-42 wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP is right, he is not "completely" American in the sense that he is both American and Peruvian because of his dual citizenship. He also spent most of his life outside of the USA. Which I think is a great thing as the representative of a worldwide religion. Born in the US, an English-speaking country in North America, lived in Peru, a Spanish-speaking country in the South America, then in Italy, an Italian-speaking c…

> he is not "completely" American As for being completely American: dual citizen of U.S. and another country here. On each April 15, the U.S. still considers me completely American even though I haven’t earned a cent there in over a decade. So in an official sense, that moniker sticks to you like Super Glue. Granted, the new pope may have a wider scope of cultural influences than many, if not a majority of Americans,…

There’s a really interesting question here. Will the USA claim the right to tax the new pontiff? Likely answer is no, but legally the statute suggests yes. But who knows? There’s never before been a US citizen who is also a foreign sovereign.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#802

Post by jeroenhd »

anon291 wrote: post #600
jkaplowitz wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your source on that, at least in the case when the head of the foreign state also remains a US citizen? There's also the interesting question of whether he will remain a US citizen after all, or whether taking the office of pope will count as him relinquishing US citizenship under INA §349(a)(4): https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/L... In the latter case, the tax question would not aris…

There is no way in hell they'd revoke his American citizenship. American Catholics would be up in arms.

He might want to himself for tax purposes alone. I don't know how much the standard salary for a pope is, but I'm pretty sure it's above the threshold for the US "give us your foreign earned money" tax law.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#803

Post by froh »

baruz wrote: post #777
froh wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and additionally each order has a "charisma", a specific focus and style, think pythonista vs crustacean vs C vs C++ vs Haskell longer vs lisper. each order attracts it's own flock. so now I need to check on Augustines... fun fact: Martin Luther was an Augustine monk.

You probably got auto-spellchecked, but it’s “charism,” without the a.

good catch, thanks

and it also escaped me because in my mother's tongue de-* it's spelled Charisma.

"tja"

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#804

Post by User23 »

remarkEon wrote: post #800
PortiaBerries wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never ceases to amaze me how poorly catechized the majority of cradle Catholics are. I don't intend this to be directed at you, but it's a standing joke among traditionalist Catholics that "I was raised Catholic" is the preamble to a statement of either ignorance or heresy.

No idea how old OP is, but I think there's a pattern amongst Millennial cradle Catholics in particular. You grow up with it, maybe you went to Catholic grade school and high school, perhaps even a Catholic college (Notre Dame if you're lucky, Creighton or Marquette if you didn't get that 1500 on the SAT or a 34 on the ACT that you wanted). And then there's sort of a fork when you hit adulthood. You either drop it and…

The OP AKA Dominicans date back to 1216.

Haha obviously I’m kidding you but that’s truly tangentially relevant

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#805

Post by blensor »

dralley wrote: post #727
blensor wrote: post #9

I wonder if there is any other event in recent history that is communicated as quickly to as many people as the fact that a new pope has been elected. I was out on the streets when the church bells started ringing here in Vienna as must have all around the globe where there are catholic churches

World Cup results

I think that gets close since you can hear them from the reaction around you, but I don't think it's a equally distributed. You may have regions where the fans are very vocal but you also have a lot of regions where people don't care all that much especially if you are in a region that got eliminated in an early round

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#806

Post by User23 »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #648
PortiaBerries wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never ceases to amaze me how poorly catechized the majority of cradle Catholics are. I don't intend this to be directed at you, but it's a standing joke among traditionalist Catholics that "I was raised Catholic" is the preamble to a statement of either ignorance or heresy.

For most of history 99% of Catholics could not read, much less own a Bible. The fetishization of theology is not necessary to be a good Catholic

For most of history even a single book of the Bible would cost a princely sum.

Even today a single manuscript vellum scroll is a significant expense.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#807

Post by blensor »

hnfong wrote: post #61
blensor wrote: post #9

I wonder if there is any other event in recent history that is communicated as quickly to as many people as the fact that a new pope has been elected. I was out on the streets when the church bells started ringing here in Vienna as must have all around the globe where there are catholic churches

Pretty sure the US presidential election is on par. Maybe the exact timing is ambiguous since candidates usually declare victory/admit defeat before all the votes have been counted officially, but still.

I think you are overestimating that.

Yes the whole world is somewhat curious who the president is but especially in timezones where it's inconvenient to follow that it's more a "we'll read it in the news later" thing.

The fact that a new pope has been elected is an information is information you don't need to look for because it's announced through one of the oldest public announencement systems ( the church bells )

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#808

Post by dleen »

User23 wrote: post #801
kashunstva wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he is not "completely" American As for being completely American: dual citizen of U.S. and another country here. On each April 15, the U.S. still considers me completely American even though I haven’t earned a cent there in over a decade. So in an official sense, that moniker sticks to you like Super Glue. Granted, the new pope may have a wider scope of cultural influences than many, if not a majority of Americans,…

There’s a really interesting question here. Will the USA claim the right to tax the new pontiff? Likely answer is no, but legally the statute suggests yes. But who knows? There’s never before been a US citizen who is also a foreign sovereign.

Éamon de Valera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89amon_de_Valera), US citizen and President of Ireland.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#809

Post by skissane »

User23 wrote: post #801
kashunstva wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he is not "completely" American As for being completely American: dual citizen of U.S. and another country here. On each April 15, the U.S. still considers me completely American even though I haven’t earned a cent there in over a decade. So in an official sense, that moniker sticks to you like Super Glue. Granted, the new pope may have a wider scope of cultural influences than many, if not a majority of Americans,…

There’s a really interesting question here. Will the USA claim the right to tax the new pontiff? Likely answer is no, but legally the statute suggests yes. But who knows? There’s never before been a US citizen who is also a foreign sovereign.

> There’s never before been a US citizen who is also a foreign sovereign.

Éamon de Valera was born in New York City in 1882, and served as President of Ireland from 1959 to 1973

Bhumibol Adulyadej was born in Cambridge, Massachusetts in 1927, and served as King of Thailand from 1946 until his death in 2016

That’s just two US-born individuals who became head of state of another country, there may be more.

I assume both were US citizens at birth (de Valera was born into poverty, abandoned by his Spanish father, reputedly an artist; Bhumibol‘s father was a student at Harvard)-whether or not they ever formally renounced their US citizenship, I don’t know

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#810

Post by desertrider12 »

b800h wrote: post #499
bowsamic wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be shocked if that's one of the reasons why they sequester

There was a horrendous problem with gambling on the election at one point. I believe the most recent episode of "Tasting History with Max Miller" covers this.

There was also an interesting article here a month ago about the history of betting on conclaves. https://nodumbideas.com/p/betting-on-the-pope-was-the-origin... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43290892
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