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First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

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Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#631
post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pope Quartz: https://xkcd.com/2501/ I was raised Catholic and couldn't have even told you there'd been a single Pope Leo, let alone 13 of them before today. The only Pope quote I could even give you is the term "Ex Cathedra".

It never ceases to amaze me how poorly catechized the majority of cradle Catholics are. I don't intend this to be directed at you, but it's a standing joke among traditionalist Catholics that "I was raised Catholic" is the preamble to a statement of either ignorance or heresy.

> I don't intend this to be directed at you, but it's a standing joke among traditionalist Catholics that "I was raised Catholic" is the preamble to a statement of either ignorance or heresy.

It's cool, no offence taken.

My mother took it all very seriously, but she was also syncretic New Age/Hindu/Catholic; she got me baptised at birth and took the lead with Sunday school and going to Church etc, my dad was mainly interested in getting me into a good school that was Catholic but himself was atheist.

I actually read the entire New Testament while at school, took it at face value, thought "this doesn't work, does it?" and went to Wicca for a bit before deciding that wasn't for me either.

I think at no point did anyone bother to explain the structure of the Catholic church, they just kinda assumed we all knew it, when what we knew was from pop culture. I think your local priest was unavoidable knowledge, but pop culture gave me bishops, the Pope (but not the fact that his official title isn't that until it came up on the quiz show QI), and the obvious joke about Cardinal Jaime Sin. The actual education gave me no sense of ranks or the organisation or how nuns and monks fit in — just the same five bible tales (birth, walking on water, feeding of 5000, eye of the needle, death and resurrection) over and over again. With singing.

The pattern you've noticed, I think also applies to the UK citizenship test: there's a general sense that most people born with UK nationality wouldn't be able to pass the test to become a citizen as an adult.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#632
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it’s worth, I was just reading that Leo wasn’t seen as “completely” American due to his many years in Peru — he’s even a citizen. Take that as you will.

Americans will say they are Italian because their great grandma ate spaghetti once, but God forbid someone is American because he was born there

I mean, this is supposedly the logic of the electing cardinals, not randos. They intentionally were avoiding an American pope until now, and this was (again, supposedly) a mitigating factor!

Personally I don’t believe in nationalism, so he’s just a dude from Chicago if anything.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently heads of foreign states are exempt.

What's your source on that, at least in the case when the head of the foreign state also remains a US citizen? There's also the interesting question of whether he will remain a US citizen after all, or whether taking the office of pope will count as him relinquishing US citizenship under INA §349(a)(4): https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/L... In the latter case, the tax question would not aris…

That law states

> A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—

It would seem there would need to be an intention to relinquish; which I don't necessarily think is tacit in accepting the office of Pope.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't a Trump appointee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_George

"Robert Barron, bishop of the Diocese of Winona–Rochester in Minnesota, was appointed less than a week ago by President Trump to the new White House Commission on Religious Liberty."

Honestly it looks like we've got a HNer quoting a journalist quoting a bishop quoting a cardinal.

The cardinal who said 'until America goes into political decline, there won't be an American pope' died in 2015 (i.e. before Trump's first term)

The bishop who quoted them does hold the post you mention - but they didn't originate the quote, they just quoted it.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're basing everything on the Bible, then you must understand that the Bible was canonized by men in a way that fit their beliefs. Even the beloved 10 commandments are different for Catholics than from the Old Testament. After getting to an age to understand this, the holiness of the scripture just lost its bling for me.

> Even the beloved 10 commandments are different for Catholics than from the Old Testament. What differences are you referring to specifically?

The catholic version makes no mention about idols. It then splits covet into 2 separate commandments; one about neighbor's wife, the second about neighbor's things. There are many websites with much more details easily found with a simple search comparing differences of the catholic ten commandments

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#636

As a record of how likely people considered this outcome: Prevost was hovering around 1% on Polymarket, and was <0.5% between white smoke and announcement.

"people" "Polymarket"

How many non-technical people are on polymarket? That seems like a poor sample size.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#638
post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never ceases to amaze me how poorly catechized the majority of cradle Catholics are. I don't intend this to be directed at you, but it's a standing joke among traditionalist Catholics that "I was raised Catholic" is the preamble to a statement of either ignorance or heresy.

> I don't intend this to be directed at you, but it's a standing joke among traditionalist Catholics that "I was raised Catholic" is the preamble to a statement of either ignorance or heresy. It's cool, no offence taken. My mother took it all very seriously, but she was also syncretic New Age/Hindu/Catholic; she got me baptised at birth and took the lead with Sunday school and going to Church etc, my dad was mainly i…

Growing up Catholic we learned all that stuff at CCD which was a Wednesday night “Sunday school”. Otherwise no idea how you would pick it up without google.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even the beloved 10 commandments are different for Catholics than from the Old Testament. What differences are you referring to specifically?

The catholic version makes no mention about idols. It then splits covet into 2 separate commandments; one about neighbor's wife, the second about neighbor's things. There are many websites with much more details easily found with a simple search comparing differences of the catholic ten commandments

https://bible.usccb.org/bible/exodus/20 verse 4 starts with "You shall not make for yourself an idol". And yes, different denominations number the commandments differently, but with the exception of Samaritanism, all Abrahamic faiths agree on what the whole of them are.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans will say they are Italian because their great grandma ate spaghetti once, but God forbid someone is American because he was born there

Well, Trump is trying to prove otherwise. I guess this would be one of the few backfires if such an act did make it through.

When the war comes, dual citizenship might become complicated. Certainly a pope cannot be a citizen, but for others.
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