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First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

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Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#581

Post by kergonath »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #484
hajile wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bible agrees with your musing as it says bishops are to be be married with kids. Peter (who the Catholics claim as the first Pope) was married as the Bible says Jesus healed his mother-in-law. 1 Timothy 3:1-7 [1] This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. [2] A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospital…

I would suggest you read the original Greek if you want to hang your textual arguments on specific words, and then also realize that the Latin translation which is canonical for Catholics is also a translation. A lot is lost in both directions.

Looking for the original words in the bible is a fool’s errand. It was written in many languages by many people over many centuries. Every bit of the bible was translated.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#582

Post by [deleted] »

moralestapia wrote: post #222
EasyMark wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but most of the world, when they say America or American, they mean the USA, otherwise they'll say "the Americas" or "North American" or "South American" or refer to a specific country. It's just a reality that a lot of people don't want to face, but you have to be pragmatic in life for the most part.

>Sure but most of the world, when they say America or American, they mean the USA. Nope. People from the US really need to get out of that bubble.

[deleted]

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#583

Post by gregopet »

blensor wrote: post #9

I wonder if there is any other event in recent history that is communicated as quickly to as many people as the fact that a new pope has been elected. I was out on the streets when the church bells started ringing here in Vienna as must have all around the globe where there are catholic churches

Here in Ljubljana too. I wasn't even fully aware of them, doing something else, but somehow it made me check my phone and there was the news bulletin, only a couple of minutes old.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#584

Post by Boogie_Man »

ImJamal wrote: post #528
Boogie_Man wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not Catholic and priests should be permitted to marry. The zeitgeist is inaccurate. Sexual abuse and subsequent cover ups were a massive problem that has largely been addressed, but the numbers of offenders are proportionally lower than those in public schools. From wikipedia: "Hofstra University researcher Charol Shakeshaft, the author of a 2002 report on sexual offenses in schools, said sexual violence is much…

> I am not Catholic and priests should be permitted to marry Doesn't seem likely since none of the Churches that existed prior to the Protestant Reformation allow it. All of the ancient churches, including the Catholic Church, do allow men who are already married to become priests. The rules are more strict for Catholics than the others.

This is an overgeneralization. By the fourth century it became standard to forbid marriage because was believed that previously permitted marriage was only for individuals who remained celibate within the marriage.

I find this to be unlikely.

This position also ignores the East, as we tend to do, although I will admit they understood themselves to be changing convention when permitting it.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#585

Post by jdminhbg »

neaden wrote: post #426
ralfd wrote: post #205

Is Pope Leo eligible to be voted President of the United States?

Is he the first US Citizen to be head of a foreign state or have their been others? Edit: Did some googling and found Toomas Hendrik Ilves was a naturalized US citizen who renounced his citizenship before becoming an Estonian ambassador and later President of Estonia. Not seeing any who actively held US citizenship while being head of state.

Boris Johnson was also born an American citizen, but renounced it before coming prime minister. Not technically head of state (the queen was), but close enough.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#586

Post by [deleted] »

raddan wrote: post #430
afavour wrote: post #97

> "Cardinal George of Chicago, of happy memory, was one of my great mentors, and he said: 'Look, until America goes into political decline, there won't be an American pope.' And his point was, if America is kind of running the world politically, culturally, economically, they don't want America running the world religiously. So, I think there's some truth to that, that we're such a superpower and so dominant, they do…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#587

Post by dylan604 »

sepositus wrote: post #550
dylan604 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Old Testament said to not eat pork. The church today says it's okay. It also says not to keep the festivals of the pagans specifically one where you cut down a tree and adorn it with ornaments, yet it is now top two "holy" holidays

This is usually taught within the first year of any seminary or religious study of Christianity. It's widely understood _why_ people are now permitted to eat pork. A good place to start is reading modern commentary on Acts 11:4-6 and basically all of Romans 14.

And the New New Testament could come out and say that same sex is not taboo and there's plenty of people in the world now to not be concerned about shallow gene pools.

The point is that the canon of writings assembled into the book is based on how people think at the time. Things change and evolve. A book canonized today would probably undo even more of the old testament teachings as archaic and no longer relevant with their version of Romans 14 and Acts 11:4-6. Francis 2:8-10 or from a series of letters sent to the people of Americas instead of Corinthians. These writings are just a snap shot in time

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#588

Post by Archelaos »

Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe wrote: post #545
mensetmanusman wrote: post #514

“ That the spirit of revolutionary change, which has long been disturbing the nations of the world, should have passed beyond the sphere of politics and made its influence felt in the cognate sphere of practical economics is not surprising. The elements of the conflict now raging are unmistakable, in the vast expansion of industrial pursuits and the marvelous discoveries of science; in the changed relations between m…

Neat thanks. Btw how do you know this?! Have you memorized stuff of all the passed popes?

This is the beginning of perhaps the most famous of Leo XIII.'s many encyclicals, entitled "Rerum novarum" from 1891. To my knowledge it is the first of many papal encyclicals on social issues. It thus marks an important point in church history (and beyond that in the history of ideas in general).

For further details see the encyclical's Wikipedia entry at https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rerum_Novarum

For the text itself: https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/docum...

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#590

Post by swat535 »

bbor wrote: post #134
afavour wrote: post #97

> "Cardinal George of Chicago, of happy memory, was one of my great mentors, and he said: 'Look, until America goes into political decline, there won't be an American pope.' And his point was, if America is kind of running the world politically, culturally, economically, they don't want America running the world religiously. So, I think there's some truth to that, that we're such a superpower and so dominant, they do…

For what it’s worth, I was just reading that Leo wasn’t seen as “completely” American due to his many years in Peru — he’s even a citizen. Take that as you will.

He is moderate. Even, with his speech and choice of clothing, somewhat confrontational with Francis.

Traditional papal symbols of Benedict XVI return and that whole speech of “Do not be afraid to evangelize with the truth” gave me a sense of confrontation with the modern ideology.

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