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India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

reuters.com

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Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#591

Post by somenameforme »

macintux wrote: post #529
somenameforme wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most clear trend in modern times is that rules are "flexible" when convenient. Here [1] is the relevant Wiki page, dated to the day before Russia's invasion. NATO had repeatedly emphasized that Ukraine would be accepted into NATO, all that was missing was a date. In the context of this, there was ongoing escalation between Russia and NATO. Russia repeatedly sought any sort of means or agreement to ensure that the…

In the absence of a membership action plan, NATO saying "Yes, someday Ukraine will be a member" (something that they were barely able to agree on in 2008, and nothing changed in the 15 years after that) is hardly "imminent".

Nothing changed is a rather odd way to read that page. The US not only began actively and publicly disregarding any protestations of Russia, but were actively carrying out NATO-Ukraine military exercises in seas right off the border of Russia. All the while you also had things like British warships intentionally entering Russian waters around Crimea. [1] There were constant provocations that would not have even been considered in 2008.

Things were obviously headed to a climax rapidly. It was likely going to be war or NATO, or perhaps both.

[1] - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57583363

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#592

Post by generic92034 »

graemep wrote: post #508
sofixa wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is not US aligned. They're an independent country with an independent foreign policy, doing whatever makes sense for them. Buying Russian gas on the cheap, buying French, American, Russian military equipment.

China is a potential threat to them, which is likely to mean an alliance with the US will makes sense to them, especially if the US becomes more hostile to CHina.

With the current US administration I doubt it. Daily 180 degree policy changes are not suitable for alliances.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#593

Post by ignoramous »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #557
ignoramous wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> decolonisation effort Kashmiris on the Indian side are citizens (unlike in "colonies"). AFSPA must be phased out but Kashmir isn't the only Indian state that's subject to it. > neither side is concerned with the wellbeing of anyone in Kashmir Yeah, the issue is too good to give up for (religion-based) politics and (military-industrial) businesses, on both sides of the border. Reminds of me this Bollywood movie dial…

> Kashmiris on the Indian side are citizens (unlike in "colonies") Since when has that prevented any government from negotiating borders? > the issue is too good to give up for (religion-based) politics and (military-industrial) businesses, on both sides of the border Yup. I’d add that the citizens of both countries legitimately despise each other. Not genocidally, for the most part, but dismissively to each others’…

> I'd add that the citizens of both countries legitimately despise each other

I've been to towns on both sides throughout the years and this isn't the case everywhere. Though, disagreements do run deep, as contrasting narratives are in fact mainstream talking points.

Hopefully, in my lifetime, the countries resolve their differences & cast aside the hateful fringe like they should.

> negotiating borders

That's a very different thing to "decolonisation".

> manufactured consent to develop jingoism

They have to. A widow survivor of the Pahalgam Attack called for peace and the jingoists lost their collective minds: https://x.com/RahulSeeker/status/1919771002013118540

India is 1.6bn people and even if 7% disagree, that's a 100mn people (and the number is far greater than 7%). Not everyone is a right-wing nationalist, though, the ruling parties and the now-compromised MSMs are.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#594

Post by enugu »

reverendsteveii wrote: post #542
enugu wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They were unable to locate the terrorists even after two or three weeks and needed a distraction. This does not make sense. When France attacked Daesh in 2015 after the terrorist attacks in Paris or when the US attacked Afghanistan after 9/11, the objective wasn't to target the exact people who carried out the attacks, but the organization behind the attacks. People can always be found as long as the organization r…

We could have gone after the people who actually did 9/11 but that was a bit of a non-starter. Also I think you're equivocating between multiple interpretations of "the terrorists" when most people absolutely wouldn't draw a distinguishing line between, using 9/11 as an example again, the actual hijackers and Osama bin Laden. There's absolutely no question that any time the phrase "the 9/11 terrorists" is used it mea…

The context was a reply to an assertion that the terrorists in Pahalgam were not found by Indian security. I interpreted this as people who physically did the attack.

If by terrorists, we mean the planners of the operation, that trail leads directly to Pakistan. Musharraf, the ex-army chief, is on record saying that the military has funded several militant organizations in Kashmir including LeT. (Osama's haveli in Abbotabad was incidentally also very close to the Pakistan Military Academy). The permission for the operations probably came all the way from the top as the attack came right after a strong statement on Kashmir by the army chief.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#595

Post by rendang »

lazide wrote: post #378
enugu wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They were unable to locate the terrorists even after two or three weeks and needed a distraction. This does not make sense. When France attacked Daesh in 2015 after the terrorist attacks in Paris or when the US attacked Afghanistan after 9/11, the objective wasn't to target the exact people who carried out the attacks, but the organization behind the attacks. People can always be found as long as the organization r…

1) Pakistan is a lot less stable right now than 2019 (as is the world). 2) The putative organization is in Pakistan, and likely supported by the military. The biggest threat India is doing (IMO) is threatening the water supply. That is getting everyone in Pakistan’s attention. These strikes are more about managing the local political situation in India, which requires some degree of obvious violent retribution.

Can India build new aqueducts/pipelines to divert water from the headwaters they control? Dams only have finite capacity after all

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#596

Post by sofixa »

hnpolicestate wrote: post #550
sofixa wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's many things in this world I would be willing to die for, but a country > human rights I see where there is a gap in your understanding. Ukrainians and the Ukrainian army aren't fighting for the abstract concept of a geopolitical entity (the country of Ukraine), they're fighting for their people, culture, language, existence, safety, freedom. Russia is proudly performing a genocide in Ukraine [1], and Putin…

This doesn't sound factual to me. The children you quoted as being "kidnapped" lived in regions of Russia that voted to secede from Ukraine. They are defacto Russian citizens. Their parents voted for it.

Voting with a foreign military presence doesn't count.

Also, a lot of the kids are orphans (their parents having been murdered by the Russians). And a lot have parents trying to trace them and get them back (there's a whole association for this).

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#598

Post by ashoeafoot »

prmph wrote: post #588
krisoft wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pakistan is not economically strong enough to participate in a war They have nukes. They don't need to be rich to do massive damage. Sure doing so would have terrible consequences, but cooler heads sometimes don't prevail. Or only prevail after much suffering and pain.

They are not going to use nukes. I always wonder at the people who have this idea that states are going to use nukes on a whim. The taboo against the use of nukes is very strong, so strong that I believe nuclear armed nations would rather wage conventional warfare even at great cost, and consider nukes only in the extreme situation where the very survival of the state is seriously threatened (and even then I'm doubtf…

They did transport those nukes in unmarked army trucks in normal traffic with only light guard , out of fear other nations (like the us) could step in to take the toys away, which was a constant background noise during the Afghanistan war. This nations secret service (ISI) has trained,armed and send terrorist groups into other nations. Bin Laden was found in a compound in a garrison city. Those djihadis do believe in that paradise afterlife of theirs no matter how much you belittle their faith. They say how little they value lifes proud and openly . Please stop projecting western sentiments on another culture for once and listen, just listen to what they say. I dont want to eat closed loop greenhouse produce for the rest of my halflife just because somebody who grew up in a golden surplus time is unwilling to engage in grim realities, to prevent them .

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#599

Post by SauciestGNU »

whatshisface wrote: post #537
enugu wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They were unable to locate the terrorists even after two or three weeks and needed a distraction. This does not make sense. When France attacked Daesh in 2015 after the terrorist attacks in Paris or when the US attacked Afghanistan after 9/11, the objective wasn't to target the exact people who carried out the attacks, but the organization behind the attacks. People can always be found as long as the organization r…

> when the US attacked Afghanistan after 9/11, the objective wasn't to target the exact people who carried out the attacks, but the organization behind the attacks The mission in Afghanistan was very much to find Bin Laden. It was changed after he escaped.

Apropos of this conflict, to where did Bin Laden escape?

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#600

Post by ben_w »

ivell wrote: post #587
ben_w wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can Pakistan can ship nukes to Iran fast enough for the Iranian economy to supply in return a militarily useful quantity of anti-air and anti-missile defence systems? On a timescale of "shooting currently happening"? If not, that's a problem for the rest of the decade, whereas an escalating situation on this border could've already evaporated a few cities between me having read the headline 20 minutes ago and pressin…

It is not that they didn't try supplying Iran with nuclear tech. https://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/pakistan/nytimes0...

Date stamp: February 12, 2004

This is why I'm comparing nuclear trade to high cholesterol. It's a long-term issue.

The "knife fight" comparison is that they just got hit. The military needs are "literally, not metaphorically, yesterday".

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