How long until this is undone?
FTC rule on unfair or deceptive fees to take effect on May 12
91–100 of 134 posts
Re: FTC rule on unfair or deceptive fees to take effect on May 12
#92[flagged]
While I can't guess your exact implication, this Biden-era regulatory move (just now being finalized) was reiterated in an executive order by Trump, and the process wasn't stopped, so it seems pretty safe to assume that the regulation will stay. Whether the FTC enforces it is, I guess, up to whoever is running it at whatever time.
> Whether the FTC enforces it is, I guess, up to whoever is running it at whatever time.
Which is something that was always true for all executive branch departments but was essentially weaponized by the Obama administration and then really taken to an extreme by the Biden admin
Re: FTC rule on unfair or deceptive fees to take effect on May 12
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
>they can't just write a single thing that writes all wrongs. Found the attorney! Nobody asked for "a single thing that writes all wrongs." Simple, broad laws can absolutely be written, they are especially easy to write, and they are usually the best laws for decent average citizens, but decent average citizens are not who laws are written for in the United States. Most people already know this.
Isn’t it kind of helpful to have an attorney’s opinion on law? Anyways, it’s very easy to complain there isn’t a law which eliminates whatever fees you think are ridiculous across a large swathe of industries. What specific implementation would you suggest, though? I’ve not heard of these apparently simple approaches.
I don't exactly want a law that eliminates the fees, just that displayed prices are the "out the door" price that can be broken down however you like internally.
Without it it's much more work to comparison shop because you have to actually try and purchase from everyone to see the real price.
Re: FTC rule on unfair or deceptive fees to take effect on May 12
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
it's really never as bad as it is for hotels. I once booked a hotel stay in san francisco which looked like $300 on the website, but after I was done I was charged an extra $200 for various fees which was mostly a san francisco hotel tax.. I never saw it until I checked out . It doesn't even matter if every hotel in SF gets that tax, I don't care, I want to see it before I book the place. Ideally at the "price map" s…
> As an aside, I don't know why AirBnB can't get their shit together and push all the fees to the map. My guess is that most of those fees are not per night? Well make the front matter say "$120/night + fees" and when you select your dates you know what the total cost is. The problem is that everyone says we want this then votes with our wallet that we don’t. Stubhub once tried to be upfront honest about fees. Bookin…
Well, people vote with their wallets that they like being scammed (I'm talking actual scams, not scammy business behavior) so does that mean that scamming should be allowed or made legal, or at least not made illegal?
Re: FTC rule on unfair or deceptive fees to take effect on May 12
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
The StubHub example is the abuse that is being banned. Yes, you can bait and switch people and take more of their money than they are otherwise willing to spend if you deceive, manipulate, and withold disclosures. It is (arguably) wrong/bad, but profitable.
Exactly. When consumers don’t vote in their own best interest with their wallets, legislation is the only option. Let’s do airlines next
Voting with your wallet is like trying to turn a river by getting a bunch of people together with buckets. Voting with your votes is building a dam.
Re: FTC rule on unfair or deceptive fees to take effect on May 12
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
it's really never as bad as it is for hotels. I once booked a hotel stay in san francisco which looked like $300 on the website, but after I was done I was charged an extra $200 for various fees which was mostly a san francisco hotel tax.. I never saw it until I checked out . It doesn't even matter if every hotel in SF gets that tax, I don't care, I want to see it before I book the place. Ideally at the "price map" s…
> As an aside, I don't know why AirBnB can't get their shit together and push all the fees to the map. My guess is that most of those fees are not per night? Well make the front matter say "$120/night + fees" and when you select your dates you know what the total cost is. The problem is that everyone says we want this then votes with our wallet that we don’t. Stubhub once tried to be upfront honest about fees. Bookin…
> The problem is that everyone says we want this then votes with our wallet that we don’t.
I don’t see that as a problem whatsoever.
i see this idea of “i need to manipulate people for them to give me money” as the problem.
“if i don’t manipulate and obfuscate, no one wants my product” should make one reconsider their business model to one where they can be upfront and people still want the product.
Re: FTC rule on unfair or deceptive fees to take effect on May 12
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Regulations like this are written in consultation with the industries being regulated. There is a ton of wrangling and nailing down details. It's usually hundreds of pages long and specific to the industry. So they can't just write a single thing that rights all wrongs. And their staffing is extremely limited.
>they can't just write a single thing that writes all wrongs. Found the attorney! Nobody asked for "a single thing that writes all wrongs." Simple, broad laws can absolutely be written, they are especially easy to write, and they are usually the best laws for decent average citizens, but decent average citizens are not who laws are written for in the United States. Most people already know this.
> Simple, broad laws can absolutely be written,
This isn’t a law. It’s a regulatory policy.
Simple, broad laws have another term that you can often use to describe them: “sweeping”.
Those kinds of changes are better left to legislators, who are responsive to political pressure and subject to elections.
I’m all for regulatory rulemaking by executives, but it should generally be careful narrow rulemaking. Simple, broad, sweeping changes should generally be left to the legislature.
Re: FTC rule on unfair or deceptive fees to take effect on May 12
#98> Also included in the FTC’s new FAQ are the types of fees that can be excluded, such as taxes or government fees, shipping charges, and charges for optional goods or services people may select to buy as part of the same transaction.
Most of those, especially taxes, should be included as well.
It's interesting how they put effort into the regulation, but then decided to put a little more, just to needlessly water it down and make it worsw.
Re: FTC rule on unfair or deceptive fees to take effect on May 12
#99> Live-event tickets include those for concerts, sporting events, music, theater, and other live performances that audiences watch as they occur, but not pre-recorded audio or visual performances. What could be the reason pre-recorded audio/visual performances are excluded? Shouldn't this just be for everything? Why would some types of tickets be required to be truthful about fees and not allowed to lie about the tot…
Movie theaters/studios lobbied harder
Simply put, cinemas didn’t engage in this bad behavior (yet) so they escaped regulation.
Re: FTC rule on unfair or deceptive fees to take effect on May 12
#100Why limit this to live-event and lodging industries? Why not all the fees tacked on by cell carriers? For example, AT&T charges a fee to "recover certain aggregate expenses AT&T incurs, including, but not limited to, charges AT&T or its agents pay to interconnect with other carriers to deliver calls from AT&T customers to their customers and charges associated with cell site rents and maintenance" [1] [1] https://www…
Regulations like this are written in consultation with the industries being regulated. There is a ton of wrangling and nailing down details. It's usually hundreds of pages long and specific to the industry. So they can't just write a single thing that rights all wrongs. And their staffing is extremely limited.
In this case, it isn't "writing a single things that rights all wrongs"
Its "Write something that helps consumers know what they'll be paying"
It wouldn't even be changing the billing at all, but changing how they advertise pricing. Fees such as the example would need to be included in advertised total price of your bill. You wouldn't even need to change the bills. The companies have enough staff to do this in advertising. Government agencies' staffing would be stretched with or without such a rule.