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EU to ban anonymous crypto accounts and privacy coins by 2027

cointelegraph.com

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Re: EU to ban anonymous crypto accounts and privacy coins by 2027

#81

Post by kreetx »

lawn wrote: post #44
cedws wrote: post #28

Monero in particular absolutely terrifies governments and financial institutions - you can tell because it's been banned and delisted practically everywhere. This gives me great confidence in it. Not as a speculative asset, but as a means of having truly private transactions.

In a way Monero is more a cryptocurrency than Bitcoin. A fast, cheap, global, and private currency; in contrast to the speculative asset that is Bitcoin.

Today, Bitcoin is a scarce asset similar to gold and wants to become the global reserve currency (because it can't be devalued).

The fast-cheap-private part may or may not be fixed at some point, especially the fast-cheap, or other currencies may help with it.

Re: EU to ban anonymous crypto accounts and privacy coins by 2027

#82

Post by kreetx »

93po wrote: post #70
xyzal wrote: post #66

I wonder what benefit to society might having a shadow financial system bring? I can't think of any, except for financing entities operating outside lawful limits.

i think the whole point for many is freedom from tyranny. just because there are laws around how you're allowed to store and move around things that you own doesn't mean those laws are morally or ethically well-founded.

"Tyranny" has a negative connotation to it, but cultures vary, laws are not universal, and also people have different values - if you live somewhere where you can't otherwise transact, a private cryptocurrency may be a way out for you.

Re: EU to ban anonymous crypto accounts and privacy coins by 2027

#83

Post by plsbenice34 »

bgwalter wrote: post #54
bilekas wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the article ? The currencies are not being BANNED, simply anonymous accounts are, this is standard practice in financial institutions where you're required to Know Your Customer (KYC) and provide Anti Money Laundering (AML) provisions.

I have. Handling Monero, presumably for real currency conversions, is banned. If that were done for Bitcoin worldwide, the price would collapse, because it is no longer useful for, e.g., sanctions evasion. By the way, the article itself claims: "The European Union is set to impose sweeping Anti-Money Laundering (AML) rules that will ban privacy-preserving tokens and anonymous cryptocurrency accounts from 2027." This…

Cointelegraph very often exaggerates and writes in an inaccurate way, it should never be used as a reliable source of information. You can see the real information here which makes it clear that it only applies to exchanges: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

Re: EU to ban anonymous crypto accounts and privacy coins by 2027

#84

Post by tpm »

egorfine wrote: post #74
tpm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm allowed to live in this country, but I have no ability to prove it to any financial institutions. That is very strange, because you should be able to get a temporary residence certificate (whatever it's called in your respective country) and thus get an account with if not all then at least most banks.

I'm in the same position as the GP. Impossible, because EU bureaucracy sometimes yield kafkaesque deadlocks. For example, some EU countries stated that their permits given to ukrainians are to be considered valid past the printed expiration date and thus stopped producing new plastic for them. Now, good luck finding any KYC provider that will accept that. Or any KYC provider that accepts printed Poland's TPS. Or any…

Maybe this is a dumb question, but I am trying to understand this situation. There are still some physical bank branches and I assume at least some banks will open an account for you with that TPS if you visit a branch. Is that not correct? That way you would have access to at least some financial services, if not those where as you write (remote) KYC is needed.

Re: EU to ban anonymous crypto accounts and privacy coins by 2027

#85

Post by plsbenice34 »

xyzal wrote: post #66

I wonder what benefit to society might having a shadow financial system bring? I can't think of any, except for financing entities operating outside lawful limits.

Hong Kong protestors were tracked by looking at their purchases of public transport tickets. Canada froze the bank accounts of those involved in protests also. Wikileaks had to rely on cryptocurrency for funding and donations could be tracked otherwise. From this I see a trend that shows it is critical for democracy, don't you?

Re: EU to ban anonymous crypto accounts and privacy coins by 2027

#86

Post by alexey-salmin »

tpm wrote: post #68
neiman wrote: post #46

I'm a foreigner living in the EU for many years, here's my 2 cents. For over a year, I was locked out of financial services due to my inability to pass KYC. The reason was that I had already left one country, but was still in the process of getting a residency visa in another. During the process, I'm allowed to live in this country, but I have no ability to prove it to any financial institutions. So, no wonder I'm bi…

> I'm allowed to live in this country, but I have no ability to prove it to any financial institutions. That is very strange, because you should be able to get a temporary residence certificate (whatever it's called in your respective country) and thus get an account with if not all then at least most banks.

Not OP but in a similar situation. In online banks there's nowhere to upload these temporary certificates, they accept a limited number of options (passeport, residence card etc) and temporary certificate printed on an A4 paper isn't one of them. You can try sending it via email to customer support, I did it with around 8 different banks and Revolut was the only one to reply and open an account for me after the manual review. Another one was PCS that didn't even ask for residence permit but then it went bust, and it took around 6 months to get the money back.

Funnily enough this is still better compared to classic offline banks: none of them would have me even with the 4-year residence permit I have now. I come from a sanctioned country, I guess it raises some internal risk alarms. Only BNP did accept me at first but then after 3 months they froze my account with my salary on it.

Re: EU to ban anonymous crypto accounts and privacy coins by 2027

#87

Post by koonsolo »

beernet wrote: post #64
sshine wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost for a Bitcoin transaction today is $0.96. The lowest daily average cost per transaction in the last month was $0.81, and the highest was $2.52.

Which is still quite a lot. Litecoin (among other alternatives) provides the exact same service for close to zero cost and at a better speed.

Nano offers sub-second transactions at 0 cost.

Re: EU to ban anonymous crypto accounts and privacy coins by 2027

#88

Post by splix »

tpm wrote: post #68
neiman wrote: post #46

I'm a foreigner living in the EU for many years, here's my 2 cents. For over a year, I was locked out of financial services due to my inability to pass KYC. The reason was that I had already left one country, but was still in the process of getting a residency visa in another. During the process, I'm allowed to live in this country, but I have no ability to prove it to any financial institutions. So, no wonder I'm bi…

> I'm allowed to live in this country, but I have no ability to prove it to any financial institutions. That is very strange, because you should be able to get a temporary residence certificate (whatever it's called in your respective country) and thus get an account with if not all then at least most banks.

As someone who have been living in a couple of countries under a temporal residence I can say it's not that simple. In many cases the temporal residence is simply not accepted, or not in the list of standard docs, etc. Private companies don't really care about all those non standard cases, and they ask either for a passport of the country or a permanent residence at least.

So legally yes, you can pass a KYC, but in practice you're an edge case no one cares about

Re: EU to ban anonymous crypto accounts and privacy coins by 2027

#89

Post by neiman »

tpm wrote: post #68
neiman wrote: post #46

I'm a foreigner living in the EU for many years, here's my 2 cents. For over a year, I was locked out of financial services due to my inability to pass KYC. The reason was that I had already left one country, but was still in the process of getting a residency visa in another. During the process, I'm allowed to live in this country, but I have no ability to prove it to any financial institutions. So, no wonder I'm bi…

> I'm allowed to live in this country, but I have no ability to prove it to any financial institutions. That is very strange, because you should be able to get a temporary residence certificate (whatever it's called in your respective country) and thus get an account with if not all then at least most banks.

You get a stamp in the passport that you're waiting for a decision regarding your stay, but it's meaningless to anyone besides the border control people.

Re: EU to ban anonymous crypto accounts and privacy coins by 2027

#90

Post by neiman »

tpm wrote: post #84
egorfine wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the same position as the GP. Impossible, because EU bureaucracy sometimes yield kafkaesque deadlocks. For example, some EU countries stated that their permits given to ukrainians are to be considered valid past the printed expiration date and thus stopped producing new plastic for them. Now, good luck finding any KYC provider that will accept that. Or any KYC provider that accepts printed Poland's TPS. Or any…

Maybe this is a dumb question, but I am trying to understand this situation. There are still some physical bank branches and I assume at least some banks will open an account for you with that TPS if you visit a branch. Is that not correct? That way you would have access to at least some financial services, if not those where as you write (remote) KYC is needed.

I tried with one physical bank, and they refused; the expat forums said it's the same with all, though I didn't verify myself tbh.

The problem is that the only thing you get is a stamp in your passport saying you applied for a temporary residence permit (including the request number).

The border control people can then (I guess) use this number to verify that your case is still pending, so you're legal in the country. But since no one else can, you get no services.

[Edit: I should add that my main problem was with other financial services, not a bank, since I could use my existing bank accounts from another country. So maybe if I'd make enough effort, I would be able to open a physical bank account, but this was not the main problem for me]

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