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VR Design Unpacked: The secret to Beat Saber's fun

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Re: VR Design Unpacked: The secret to Beat Saber's fun

#81

Post by Auracle »

scotty79 wrote: post #72
caseyross wrote: post #49

So, building on this, we can view Beat Saber not as a music game, but as a *dance* game that figured out a reliable, precise way to track player movements. It's interesting to note that similar movement-quantizing systems are at the core of numerous other hit games, most notably in Dance Dance Revolution but also to some extent Rock Band and Taiko no Tatsujin .

I completely agree that's a dance game. Similar way that Guitar Hero is a music playing game. It's not exactly a dance but delivers something close to dance feeling. My brain can't dance, can't even perceive dance. When I see dancing champions perform, their movements make no sense to me and seem completely unrelated to the music they are dancing to. However when I played Beat Saber occasionally I feel glimpses of th…

To me it's almost more of a meditation game, similar to how Guitar Hero or other rhythm games could get when you got in the zone, but full body. On a hard track you don't have time to think, just move. If you get distracted, you might fail.

Re: VR Design Unpacked: The secret to Beat Saber's fun

#82

Post by Auracle »

GuB-42 wrote: post #55

Beat Saber is absolutely a rhythm game. It doesn't have the typical scoring system that is based on having an accurate timing, but it is far from the only one. Guitar Hero, one of the best known rhythm game doesn't score based on timing accuracy. You hit a note or you don't, that's all, ut you still have to hit that note with a certain timing. Same thing for Beat Saber, you hit or you don't hit the note. If you want…

You could absolutely use timing for scoring, just have it be when you first hit the block (or perhaps the midpoint of the block), and compare that to when it's charted.

The problem would be people walking forward/backward a bit. That'd throw all the timing off. I can only guess they tried various things to take that into account but then settled for a different type of scoring.

Re: VR Design Unpacked: The secret to Beat Saber's fun

#83

Post by flavelius »

this_and_that wrote: post #56
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I desperately want more games like Unseen Diplomacy, where you walk through an infinite hallway. In real life, you're just walking in circles, but it doesn't feel that way in VR! I'm immune to VR motion sickness, but games without fake movement just feel so much more immersive!

The game "Tea for God" ( https://www.google.com/search?q=tea+for+god&oq=tea+for+god ) also has this strange behavior where the world curves around in a non-Euclidean / M.C. Escher-style fashion so that you feel like you're in a labyrinth, but you're actually in a ~8ft square in your living room. "Tea for God" and "Unseen Diplomacy" are the only games I'm aware of that operate in this fashion, with "realistic" walking…

"Eye of the temple" is another one https://www.roadtovr.com/eye-of-the-temple-design-room-scale...

Re: VR Design Unpacked: The secret to Beat Saber's fun

#84

Post by xnx »

Auracle wrote: post #81
scotty79 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree that's a dance game. Similar way that Guitar Hero is a music playing game. It's not exactly a dance but delivers something close to dance feeling. My brain can't dance, can't even perceive dance. When I see dancing champions perform, their movements make no sense to me and seem completely unrelated to the music they are dancing to. However when I played Beat Saber occasionally I feel glimpses of th…

To me it's almost more of a meditation game, similar to how Guitar Hero or other rhythm games could get when you got in the zone, but full body. On a hard track you don't have time to think, just move. If you get distracted, you might fail.

Flow state

Re: VR Design Unpacked: The secret to Beat Saber's fun

#85

Post by HPsquared »

piyh wrote: post #47
HPsquared wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another type of game with this characteristic is Table tennis simulators. Although the reduced field of view is a limitation, it just feels like wearing a strange helmet. Inner ear still matches the visual picture.

I've seen plenty of people try to lean on the table and fall over

I play with an actual dinner table in front of me around the same place as the virtual table. Hazardous for some games but helpful on this case!

Re: VR Design Unpacked: The secret to Beat Saber's fun

#86

Post by Wowfunhappy »

flavelius wrote: post #83
this_and_that wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The game "Tea for God" ( https://www.google.com/search?q=tea+for+god&oq=tea+for+god ) also has this strange behavior where the world curves around in a non-Euclidean / M.C. Escher-style fashion so that you feel like you're in a labyrinth, but you're actually in a ~8ft square in your living room. "Tea for God" and "Unseen Diplomacy" are the only games I'm aware of that operate in this fashion, with "realistic" walking…

"Eye of the temple" is another one https://www.roadtovr.com/eye-of-the-temple-design-room-scale...

Eye of the Temple is different. It uses moving platforms, effectively a form of artificial movement, instead of non-euclidian space.

Re: VR Design Unpacked: The secret to Beat Saber's fun

#87

Post by cassianoleal »

socalgal2 wrote: post #73
Animats wrote: post #11

The secret to Beat Saber is that the player's physical and virtual world are locked together at all times. You're standing on a small platform and can't go anywhere. Thus, it doesn't cause nausea. Or disorientation. Or falls. Even when the player is in very active motion.[1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV1sw4lfwFw

That's not sufficient to explain Beat Saber's secert as pretty much every VR rythym game follows the same pattern but was not as successful

True.

Synth Riders is quite nice as well, and so is Pistol Whip. Both are "on rails" rather than standing on a platform. I'm not sure if that's what makes Beat Saber slightly more appealing though.

Re: VR Design Unpacked: The secret to Beat Saber's fun

#88

Post by cassianoleal »

9dev wrote: post #41
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Any game where your game-world movements don't match your real-world movements is what causes motion sickness. It's as simple as that. If you're sitting in a mech, once the mech moves, you're likely to get sick, because you're moving in the game world, but not the real world. There are ways to kind of fool your brain to make it work, but it's not 100%. For example, in Gorn, one of the movement options is…

Why wouldn’t the same thing apply when driving a car in RL, however?

Car sickness is very real though, only maybe not as much for the driver.

I never used to have it, but in modern cars where accelerations are much higher and you're much more disconnected from the outside in terms of how much you can see and hear, it's almost a certainty. This is especially true on the backseat where it can also get fairly claustrophobic.

Re: VR Design Unpacked: The secret to Beat Saber's fun

#89

Post by trafficante »

flavelius wrote: post #83
this_and_that wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The game "Tea for God" ( https://www.google.com/search?q=tea+for+god&oq=tea+for+god ) also has this strange behavior where the world curves around in a non-Euclidean / M.C. Escher-style fashion so that you feel like you're in a labyrinth, but you're actually in a ~8ft square in your living room. "Tea for God" and "Unseen Diplomacy" are the only games I'm aware of that operate in this fashion, with "realistic" walking…

"Eye of the temple" is another one https://www.roadtovr.com/eye-of-the-temple-design-room-scale...

Eye of the Temple has some of the coolest VR-specific movement tricks I’ve ever seen.

If you’re getting close to your IRL boundary, it sets up a rolling log as part of a puzzle. To stay on a real forward-moving rolling log, you have to walk backwards to maintain balance. So in context of the game, you’re convincingly moving “forwards” while in reality you’re walking backwards.

Pretty sure I took off the headset and geeked out at everyone in the house first time I realized what was happening.

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