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LLMs for Engineering: Teaching Models to Design High Powered Rockets

arxiv.org

21–30 of 46 posts

Re: LLMs for Engineering: Teaching Models to Design High Powered Rockets

#21
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely true. Routing is a very important part of electrical schematics.

Is it? Isn’t that more like PCB design? The schematic is just the abstract connection of components, right?

I would consider a PCB schematic to be part of an electrical schematic. Even if you don’t, you still have to consider final layout because some lines will need EMF protection. The linear equations and boolean algebra are just a (extremely useful) model after all.

Re: LLMs for Engineering: Teaching Models to Design High Powered Rockets

#22

A fundamental problem with this entire class of machine learning is that it is based on a model / simulation of reality. "RocketPy, a high-fidelity trajectory simulation library for high-power rocketry" in this case. Nothing against this sim in particular but all such simulations that attempt to model any non-trivial system are imperfect. Nature is just too complex to model precisely and accurately. The LLM (or other…

> all such simulations that attempt to model any non-trivial system are imperfect.

I believe the future of such simulation is to start from the lowest level - ie. schrodinger's equation, and get the simulator to derive all higher level stuff.

Obviously the higher level models are imperfect, but then it's the AI's job to decide if a pile of soil needs to be simulated as a load of grains of sand, or as crystals of quartz, or as atoms of silicon, or as quarks...

The AI can always check its answer by redoing a lower level simulation of a tiny part of the result, and check it is consistent with a higher level/cheaper simulation.

Re: LLMs for Engineering: Teaching Models to Design High Powered Rockets

#23

A fundamental problem with this entire class of machine learning is that it is based on a model / simulation of reality. "RocketPy, a high-fidelity trajectory simulation library for high-power rocketry" in this case. Nothing against this sim in particular but all such simulations that attempt to model any non-trivial system are imperfect. Nature is just too complex to model precisely and accurately. The LLM (or other…

I don't think it's a "problem" as much as it is a "tradeoff". You basically have two approaches to take here: 1) try to simulate as best as you can, iteratively improve the simulation space after trying it out in real-life, and go back and forth or 2) skip the simulation step and do the same process but only in real-life, not having any simulation step at all and only rely on real scenarios, but few of them.

Considering how fast you can go with simulations vs real launches, I'm not surprised the took the first approach.

Re: LLMs for Engineering: Teaching Models to Design High Powered Rockets

#24
post #10

Imagine a fake engineer who read books about engineering as scifi, and thanks to his superhuman memory, he's mastered the engineer-speak so well that he sounds more engineery than top engineers in the world. Except that he has no clue about engineering and to him it's the same as literature or prose. Now he's tasked with designing a bridge. He pauses for a second and starts speaking, in his usual polished style: "sur…

> Think of the absurdity of trying to understand the Pi number by looking at its first billion digits and trying to predict the next digit. And think of what it takes to advance from memorizing digits of such numbers and predicting continuation with astrology-style logic to understanding the math behind the digits of Pi. I'm prepared to believe that a sufficiently advanced LLM around today will have some "neural" rep…

Anthropic had a recent paper on why llms can't even get e.g. simple arithmetic consistently correct, much less generalize the concept of infinite series. The finding was that they don't find a way to represent the mechanics of an operation, they build chains of heuristics that sometimes happen to work.

Re: LLMs for Engineering: Teaching Models to Design High Powered Rockets

#25

My hypothesis is until they can really nail down image to text and text to image, such that training on diagrams and drawings can produce fruitful multi modal output, classic engineering is going to be a tough nut to crack. Software engineering lends itself greatly to LLMs because it just fits so nicely into tokenization. Whereas mechanical drawings or electronic schematics are sort of more like a visual language. Im…

Mechanical drawings and schematics are visualizations for humans. If you look at the data structure of a gerber or DWG, it’s vectors and metadata. These happen to be great for LLMs. My hypothesis is that we haven’t done the work on that yet because the market is more interested in things like Ghibli imagery.

Ate you being facetious or is that really your hypothesis?

Re: LLMs for Engineering: Teaching Models to Design High Powered Rockets

#26

A fundamental problem with this entire class of machine learning is that it is based on a model / simulation of reality. "RocketPy, a high-fidelity trajectory simulation library for high-power rocketry" in this case. Nothing against this sim in particular but all such simulations that attempt to model any non-trivial system are imperfect. Nature is just too complex to model precisely and accurately. The LLM (or other…

Accurate simulation is also an AI problem, but that should be a separate paper

Re: LLMs for Engineering: Teaching Models to Design High Powered Rockets

#28
post #10

Imagine a fake engineer who read books about engineering as scifi, and thanks to his superhuman memory, he's mastered the engineer-speak so well that he sounds more engineery than top engineers in the world. Except that he has no clue about engineering and to him it's the same as literature or prose. Now he's tasked with designing a bridge. He pauses for a second and starts speaking, in his usual polished style: "sur…

It's worse than that. Imagine he's consistently plausibly wrong about everything, but when you point that out, people think it's just sour grapes at how smart he is.

Re: LLMs for Engineering: Teaching Models to Design High Powered Rockets

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Think of the absurdity of trying to understand the Pi number by looking at its first billion digits and trying to predict the next digit. And think of what it takes to advance from memorizing digits of such numbers and predicting continuation with astrology-style logic to understanding the math behind the digits of Pi. I'm prepared to believe that a sufficiently advanced LLM around today will have some "neural" rep…

> I'm prepared to believe that a sufficiently advanced LLM This is the opposite of engineering/science. This is animism.

I want to believe, man. Just two more layers and this thing finally becomes a real boy.

Re: LLMs for Engineering: Teaching Models to Design High Powered Rockets

#30
post #9

I think what might work is people coming together around this LLM like a God. Similar to Rod of Iron Ministries (The Church of the AR-15) Taking what is says, fine tuning it, testing it, feeding back in and mostly waiting as LLMs improve. LLMs will never be smarter than humans, but they can be a meeting place where people congregate to work on goals and worship. Like QAnon, that's where the collective IQ and power co…

Okay. As long as they don't start sacrificing virgins to the Prompt Gods.
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