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Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

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Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#361

Post by tjbiddle »

sorcerer-mar wrote: post #205
tjbiddle wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a mixed bag. Parents, eldest sister and eldest all have Teslas and have done cross-country road trips with no problems, and use FSD very regularly. Brother, also the most cynical (and probably on HN), swears it's out to kill him and claims it nearly put him under a truck had he not taken over.

“A mixed bag” for a safety critical system is a synonym for “dangerous” or “dogshit”

No it's not.

I've heard both "This has done things more intelligently than me and prevented errors I would've made" and also "This made errors"

Statistically, it's better than human drivers. But of course, if a machine makes an error - it's going to get more headlines.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#362

Post by pier25 »

slg wrote: post #324
pier25 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "sleep while it drives me to work" People work all over the planet during all seasons, don't they?

Reread my original comment or even just the that short seven word quote you have right there. Notice that key word "me". I was speaking about myself in the present tense, not "people... all over the planet during all seasons".

You were commenting on a broader point... now that is some serious "changing goal posts".

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#363

Post by lern_too_spel »

loeg wrote: post #273
lern_too_spel wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as easy as more components = more expensive. The battery pack is much smaller. A Prius PHEV is almost 500 lbs lighter than a Model 3 and only 100 lbs heavier than a normal hybrid Prius, which also has a battery pack. The MSRP is lower by almost $10k, which can cover a lot of maintenance before you resell it with less depreciation.

> It's not as easy as more components = more expensive. I never said "more expensive."

You said weight penalty and maintenance. Those things have a cost in time and money. It is less than for a comparable BEV.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#364

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #337
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not seem bad! I was imagining something more generic, literally a mini trailer with a generator bolted on top, but this is sleek.

The motorcycle engine doesn't produce enough power so it can only do 40mph when the battery is dead.

That is less than ideal. Definitely does not fit my detachable range extender vision.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#365

Post by sorcerer-mar »

tjbiddle wrote: post #361
sorcerer-mar wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“A mixed bag” for a safety critical system is a synonym for “dangerous” or “dogshit”

No it's not. I've heard both "This has done things more intelligently than me and prevented errors I would've made" and also "This made errors" Statistically, it's better than human drivers. But of course, if a machine makes an error - it's going to get more headlines.

> Statistically, it's better than human drivers.

Tesla has never published the data required to substantiate this claim.

Next what you'll post is Tesla's press release where they look at accidents per mile with no segregation by driving type (city, freeway, age of car, weather conditions, etc)

Then the next step after that should be for you to say, "huh, it actually is odd that they publish something that purports to show it's safer than human drivers, but they consistently decline to publish the data necessary to actually evaluate whether it's safer than human drivers."

That should make you raise your eyebrows a bit.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#366

Post by dekhn »

tzs wrote: post #263
mjamesaustin wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it's straightforwardly true that road trip charging is less convenient than with gas cars. But charging for regular use is dramatically better. Anytime you're not on a road trip, you spend essentially no time fueling. Just plug in at night like you do with other electronics. So I'll take saving 15 mins every week avoiding the gas station, in exchange for the couple times a year I have to wait an extra 15 mins cha…

Note that if your hybrid is a plug-in hybrid then you might get the best of both worlds. On long road trips you get the fast re-energizing of a gas car. For regular use if your plug in every night there is a good chance you can do most of your driving in EV mode. Current plug-in hybrids often have EV mode ranges of 40+ miles. This is what someone I know with a RAV4 Prime reports. They plug in at night and it seems to…

I have a RAV4 Prime (decided to get that instead of a Tesla) and I absolutely love it. It's the best of all worlds for my use case (mostly <40mi daily commute entirely on battery, occasional longer drives that use gas). I often go months+ without refilling the gas tank, and it charges overnight from empty. And, it's clearly Toyota quality in terms of implementation.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#367

Post by standardUser »

brummm wrote: post #347
standardUser wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost, accessibility, convenience, reliability, safety. You can get all of that with a human driver too, if you're rich.

Waymo is not cheaper than Uber. I don't buy the cost argument tbh.

Explain how a car with a human driver will be cheaper or have price parity with a car that requires no paid human driver. The driver is the most expensive part of every ride. And that's before tip.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#368

Post by floxy »

princevegeta89 wrote: post #318
floxy wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not the 1000 EVs out of the 100k vehicles that matter, but rather the 10k hybrid vehicles out of that same 100k pool, which literally produce double the MPG compared to ICE cars. It seems like hybrid sales are pretty comparable to EV sales in the U.S., at least according to this source anyway. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=63904

These metrics are most likely skewed - California has a significant number of EVs in a sample of every 100 cars, but in other states EVs are almost nowhere to be found.

Seems in line with the data here as well:

https://www.bts.gov/content/gasoline-hybrid-and-electric-veh...

...I would think this data is from vehicle registration data, and not sampled from owner surveys (or the like).

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#369

Post by floxy »

jeffbee wrote: post #72
jes5199 wrote: post #8

Toyota has been way, way behind on electrification. I suspect they’ve been Innovator’s Dilemma’d are are in a death spiral that they haven’t even noticed yet

Toyota has delivered more batteries in cars than anyone but Tesla.

Anyone have a source for how many pounds of batteries each car manufacturer has shipped over the years? It would be nice to see how BYD is doing compared to Toyota, Tesla, VW, and General Motors, etc.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#370

Post by slg »

pier25 wrote: post #362
slg wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reread my original comment or even just the that short seven word quote you have right there. Notice that key word "me". I was speaking about myself in the present tense, not "people... all over the planet during all seasons".

You were commenting on a broader point... now that is some serious "changing goal posts".

Thank you, I appreciate you clarifying to me what I meant when I said what I said.
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