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Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

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Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#231

Post by constantcrying »

das_keyboard wrote: post #194
constantcrying wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany you can leave school at 16 and work full-time.

That is not true for most states in Germany. After 10 years of mandatory school most states have what is called "Berufsschulpflicht" until you are at least 18 years old. That means you have to learn a job, which is not the same as working full-time and still considered education.

16 year olds in Germany are employed and they can work 40 hours a week.

Claiming that 16 year olds "can not work because they have mandatory school" is false.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#232

Post by spicyusername »

bluGill wrote: post #223
ecshafer wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those reasons can be solved with her using a public phone. My school growing up had a phone in the hallway by the main office for those reasons.

No they cannot. My school had multiple doors that could not see each other - more than once my parents were waiting for me at a different door from the one I was standing at waiting for them. We did find each other, but only after a lot of searching - sometimes we even passed each other as we both switched doors to wait at. Okay, it did work out, but not nearly as well as a simple cell phone. Smart phones add additio…

So you had to wait a little extra for the benefit of a society where children aren't always on a screen?

Seems like a good trade to me.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#233

Post by tremon »

constantcrying wrote: post #12
bnegreve wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely reading/writing are useful skills that most people did not have before school was mandatory.

I did not take me twelve years to learn to read and write. What an awful excuse. What made me good at reading was reading books outside of school . In a single semester of university I learned more than in 12 years of school.

You should have taken that semester when you were 4 years old then, you could have skipped fifteen years of education!

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#234

Post by meowface »

dweekly wrote: post #229
RHSeeger wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

Those are good reasons to have a smart watch with cellular capabilities. They are not good reasons to have a phone at school. In terms of QOL: there is a meaningful body of research about the impact of giving a teenage girl access to a phone on their quality of life. https://adc.bmj.com/content/109/7/576 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S245195882...

I assume those effects are similar even if they're only using the phone before and after school.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#235

Post by GuB-42 »

cheschire wrote: post #54
GuB-42 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is: smartphones exist. The young adults these children will become will live in a world where smartphones are an essential part of their life. Using a smartphone is a practical skill. That's why I don't think banning smartphones is the best idea. It is probably better than unrestricted access, but I feel that school should teach how to use them well instead. It is a bit like with calculators, there are clas…

Cars exist and are foundational to modern living yet we do not push kids to learn to drive until their later teenage years. Some countries wait until they are 18 and others choosing a couple years sooner.

I don't know how it is done in the US, but I definitely learned about cars at school. Including:

- Lessons about road safety (causes of accidents, number of deaths, etc...)

- In elementary school, navigating the roads as a pedestrian or cyclist. Including going outside and crossing roads.

- In secondary school, basic information about traffic law, road signs, and information related to light motor vehicles (mopeds, ...)

- Though I didn't do it personally, some school had a class at a practice track, using pedal cars to learn about things like right of way

So while we didn't do actual driving, probably for economic and liability reasons, it is definitely part of the curriculum.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#236

Post by teloli »

Gormo wrote: post #196
nabla9 wrote: post #150

It had to be a law because children are people in Finland and most Nordic countries with rights that adults just can't take away. Current legislation allows the teacher to tell a student to put their phone away in a pocket or backpack, for example, where it will not be a distraction. The use of phones during breaks cannot be completely banned, as students have fundamental rights. The Constitution guarantees everyone…

> It had to be a law because children are people in Finland and most Nordic countries with rights that adults just can't take away. It's a strange concept to hold that there are rights that can't be taken away, but then take them away merely by passing legislation.

You should have seen what happened a few years ago during a thing called covid

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#237

Post by constantcrying »

piva00 wrote: post #173
constantcrying wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment I entered university I learned much more and much faster. Obviously the fault for that lies with the school system. My school was an average school for students targeting a university degree and I did quite well compared to my peers.

The foundation you needed to even attend university was set during basic schooling. As much as you think you "learnt nothing" I don't think there's a way for you to have gone through university by learning absolutely nothing in basic schooling. Should schools be reformed to better align to contemporary ways of living? Of course, I'm all onboard to have a better education system, finding ways to foster kids inherent c…

My point is that for the 12 years I was at school, I actually learned very little.

To be clear, I am not against "learning", quite the opposite. I want children to learn effectively.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#238

Post by meowface »

ethbr1 wrote: post #204
ecshafer wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those reasons can be solved with her using a public phone. My school growing up had a phone in the hallway by the main office for those reasons.

As part of the last generation to grow up without phones in (early) school, this. The endless rationalizing of why kids need to have phones at every moment rings hollow... Because grade school kids actually did just fine without them. Things functioned, people got where they needed to get, emergencies were handled, etc. Especially with pre- and post-school access, we're balancing a minimum of in-school utility agains…

I also grew up without phones in schools but in my opinion the problem is phones (and laptops, frankly) in class. If a student isn't in class, I don't see why they can't use their phone to talk to people or browse websites or whatever.

If they're in class, then 99% chance it's distracting them from learning. If they're not, I think personal autonomy is a good rule.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#239

Post by nutanc »

We all know the advantages of smartphones. What we dont know yet are the harmful effects of the smartphones on young minds. I just hope we are not stunting the mental growth of our kids just because we dont know the harmful effects. Like how smoking was allowed everywhere initially and now we ban it everywhere.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#240

Post by ilrwbwrkhv »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #138

I deplore the fact that schools need to resort to banning phones. When I was younger I imagined a world in which computing devices would be a boon to (young) people everywhere. But many apps appear to be detrimental to people's mental health, both young and old. Possibly this can be changed. Maybe separate app stores are a solution (think f-droid)? Or maybe we need to start looking a lot harder at apps that might act…

I think what Finland did is the right take because these are devices which kids do not need.

They can call their parents if required from the main office.

This is fantastic and once again shows why Finland is a pioneer in childhood education and why Americans and other countries are so far behind.

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