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Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

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Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#81

Post by constantcrying »

sofixa wrote: post #63
constantcrying wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you think that was because their methods were bad, you didn't bother and they couldn't force you, or that their methods were not adapted to the way you learn? It was because they had nothing to teach. I still remember trying to learn fractions from a teacher who clearly did not understand fractions either. Just to be clear, I did very well in school. Given their standards I would be considered a "successful stude…

> None of that I learned while sitting in class School is about more than the part where you sit in class. The social skills, time and project management navigation etc. is all stuff you learn and do because of school but outside of class.

But if that is the goal of schools then we would drastically reduce the time students sit in class.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#83

Post by messe »

constantcrying wrote: post #74
ndr42 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read the same comment from you as a response to three different comments. I will just answer here: "There is substantial evidence to suggest that education influences intelligence.[3]" (From Wikipedia) [3] Baltes, P., & Reinert, G. (1969). Cohort effects in cognitive development in children as revealed by cross sectional sequences. Developmental Psychology, 1, 169-177.

Why do you think I am "against learning"? I am saying that school is terrible at teaching . If the goal of schooling is that students learn then the school system I was in was a total failure. The moment I entered university I learned much more and much faster.

> The moment I entered university I learned much more and much faster.

Is it not possible that schooling prepared you for this and enabled you to learn much more and faster?

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#84

Post by AlecSchueler »

Kaethar wrote: post #30

I wonder if there's any alternatives to this that teach actual discipline when it comes to phones. Methods that actually attack the reason kids are using phones in school (boredom, social anxiety, uninterested in school etc.).

I think this would be reasonable except for all the billion dollar companies pouring their money into researching how to keep the kids on their phones. The solution supposes that there's a state of mind the child could have that would give a smaller intrinsic need for the phone and that would be that, but this falls down when there are better funded and more powerful entities than the schools and parents pushing extrinsic motivations to stay on the phone for longer and longer.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#85

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

constantcrying wrote: post #43
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know several teachers. So these sorts of comments are always funny. I know math teachers who lack support but continuously attempt to present topics from different POV because some students don’t get it. So some self proclaimed smart person “learned nothing”, and therefore school is a waste of time. At the same time, ignoring that maybe a school or system is indeed not prepared to handle some individuals (which is…

As I wrote below. My most memorable math class was a teacher failing to explain fractions to me, what later became obvious to me was that the teacher did not understand fractions either. I am sure you want to blame me for this, but somehow I went to university and got a degree in (applied) mathematics. So I doubt it was some fundamental problem with me. Everybody is upset when someone tells them they fail at their jo…

I’m not blaming you. But as intelligent as you may be, you have discounted all the possibilities for the failure of you school or your particular teachers. Because you had a bad time, then the whole system is malicious right?

I know a high school teacher with a PhD and has tutored and lectured at the university level. But they are a teacher now. Guess I’ll paint them with the same brush as all teachers.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#87

Post by andrepd »

myrmidon wrote: post #60
constantcrying wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the actual purpose of school is to socialise children I agree that this is probably the most important thing for children to learn. My point is that sitting in a room for 8 hours does very little to accomplish that. >And telling if time spent learning is wasted is actually quite hard - if you know something and everyone else knows something it often fades into the background and nobody notices. But it still makes a…

> I had the direct comparison when I went to university. It became very clear that I was learning much more and faster. Sure, but this should be expected. If you filtered out all children with low interest/performance/support in preschool and just threw them onto a playground, learning rate could also be much faster in school for the rest. But if you want a solid baseline of reading/writing/math/general education for…

> I'm very confident that early discrimination/segregation ("gifted" and "idiot" tracks in school) is a net negative for society and encourages unethical outcomes on top.

I'm curious about this, can you elaborate more? My feeling is that in a class of 25 kids grouped by age being taught by 1 single teacher, it's basically impossible that the teaching pace and style is adequate for more than a handful of them. You're going to have kids bored out of their minds learning nothing and being unengaged, and you're going to have kids that can't keep up and would need extra support / a different kind of support. You're not doing either of those any favours.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#88

Post by constantcrying »

myrmidon wrote: post #60
constantcrying wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the actual purpose of school is to socialise children I agree that this is probably the most important thing for children to learn. My point is that sitting in a room for 8 hours does very little to accomplish that. >And telling if time spent learning is wasted is actually quite hard - if you know something and everyone else knows something it often fades into the background and nobody notices. But it still makes a…

> I had the direct comparison when I went to university. It became very clear that I was learning much more and faster. Sure, but this should be expected. If you filtered out all children with low interest/performance/support in preschool and just threw them onto a playground, learning rate could also be much faster in school for the rest. But if you want a solid baseline of reading/writing/math/general education for…

>Sure, but this should be expected. If you filtered out all children with low interest/performance/support in preschool and just threw them onto a playground, learning rate could also be much faster in school for the rest.

In Germany you have schools for students targeting university. I was in such a school. Every student there was there to get into university.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#89

Post by Tade0 »

The main (literal) takeaway is that teachers can now confiscate phones.

Over here, at the other end of the Baltic sea, there's an ongoing debate about phones in the classroom and some schools have regulations in place regarding the use of electronic devices, but these are largely toothless as otherwise they would infringe on the right to property.

I graduated high school before the smartphone era, so I don't have much of a point of reference, but I'm leaning on disallowing at least Wi-Fi/mobile data - that's the largest source of distraction in my view.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#90

Post by constantcrying »

_heimdall wrote: post #69
constantcrying wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are old enough to drive certain vehicles and old enough to buy alcohol. If we trust them with that surely we can let them do things during the day without constant adult supervision.

The legal drinking age in Finland is 18 or 20, depending on the ABV. Where us the drinking age 16?

I was talking about Germany.
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