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Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

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Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#11

Post by sofixa »

constantcrying wrote: post #6
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

Is that the aim of schools? It certainly did not appear to me that way, here in Germany. There was a lot of time spend sitting in a room and "learning", yet I basically learned nothing. For the other things you described I do not think they were ever considered. All around school was a giant waste of time.

> There was a lot of time spend sitting in a room and "learning", yet I basically learned nothing

Do you think that was because their methods were bad, you didn't bother and they couldn't force you, or that their methods were not adapted to the way you learn?

Also, I'd find it surprising if you really learned nothing. From what I know of German schooling from people who went through it, you certainly learned at least a bit about the depths to which humans can go to and how to prevent them (Holocaust and wider Nazi atrocities). Also, you probably learned social skills, basic project management and collaboration, and some knowledge which is probably useless other than maybe as a basis of understanding the world and various things you might encounter. I don't recall much from my biology or chemistry classes, but I recall vague outlines, which is enough.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#12

Post by constantcrying »

bnegreve wrote: post #8
constantcrying wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the aim of schools? It certainly did not appear to me that way, here in Germany. There was a lot of time spend sitting in a room and "learning", yet I basically learned nothing. For the other things you described I do not think they were ever considered. All around school was a giant waste of time.

Surely reading/writing are useful skills that most people did not have before school was mandatory.

I did not take me twelve years to learn to read and write. What an awful excuse. What made me good at reading was reading books outside of school.

In a single semester of university I learned more than in 12 years of school.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#13

Post by sofixa »

constantcrying wrote: post #10

[flagged]

> What is the point of school? Why do children have to spend 12 years of their lives learning basically nothing and coming out anything but well formed adults.

So that every kid has a uniform and common base of knowledge that helps them understand the world around them, and enables them to go further by learning more or starting to work.

With no mandatory schooling, most kids would be illiterate and ignorant. A lot of countries, even developed ones, already struggle with the second (antivaxers, flat earthers, voting for dumb populists, etc.). Which indicates the need to improve, not remove.

If there was no schooling, how would kids becoming young adults even know what they're interested in to do? Would they know that e.g. chemistry or physics are things that exist if nobody explained the basics to them? Or would they just continue doing what their parents did, condemning them to a vicious cycle and almost zero social mobility? From history, the latter.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#14

Post by technothrasher »

Hamuko wrote: post #4
lupusreal wrote: post #2

Where they not already? In America they started off banned as soon as kids started getting them in the early 00s, but then some years later the bans became unenforced or even undone because, apparently, parents said that their kids needed phones because school shooters (which is a dumb argument.) But that shouldn't apply in Finland at all.

At least in my time they were pretty much banned. You could have your phone on you but if you got caught using it during class, they'd just confiscate it. Of course, some exceptions apply like if a teacher informed of some upcoming event, you could pull up your phone and set it in your calendar without getting chewed out. Not sure what's happened since.

At my son's school, they have to put the cell phones into the "phone hotel" at the beginning of the day, and they pick them back up at the end. But it is performance only, really. If the kid really wants a cell phone, they'll just put an old one in the phone hotel and keep their real one hidden in their bag. But even that isn't really done all that much, as they're required to have laptops for class and they can do anything social and/or distracting they'd want to do on the phone on the laptop instead.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#15

Post by constantcrying »

sofixa wrote: post #11
constantcrying wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the aim of schools? It certainly did not appear to me that way, here in Germany. There was a lot of time spend sitting in a room and "learning", yet I basically learned nothing. For the other things you described I do not think they were ever considered. All around school was a giant waste of time.

> There was a lot of time spend sitting in a room and "learning", yet I basically learned nothing Do you think that was because their methods were bad, you didn't bother and they couldn't force you, or that their methods were not adapted to the way you learn? Also, I'd find it surprising if you really learned nothing. From what I know of German schooling from people who went through it, you certainly learned at least…

>Do you think that was because their methods were bad, you didn't bother and they couldn't force you, or that their methods were not adapted to the way you learn?

It was because they had nothing to teach. I still remember trying to learn fractions from a teacher who clearly did not understand fractions either.

Just to be clear, I did very well in school. Given their standards I would be considered a "successful student" and I went on to get a university degree.

>Also, you probably learned social skills, basic project management and collaboration, and some knowledge which is probably useless other than maybe as a basis of understanding the world

None of that I learned while sitting in class. I learned it despite the school activities I had to do.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#16

Post by constantcrying »

sofixa wrote: post #13
constantcrying wrote: post #10

[flagged]

> What is the point of school? Why do children have to spend 12 years of their lives learning basically nothing and coming out anything but well formed adults. So that every kid has a uniform and common base of knowledge that helps them understand the world around them, and enables them to go further by learning more or starting to work. With no mandatory schooling, most kids would be illiterate and ignorant. A lot o…

>So that every kid has a uniform and common base of knowledge that helps them understand the world around them, and enables them to go further by learning more or starting to work.

Oh, I must have missed that class.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#17

Post by constantcrying »

jajko wrote: post #9
n4r9 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School shootings do happen in Finland, although they're rarer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viertola_school_shooting

And thats no reason to let kids do empty highly addictive activity unhinged instead of getting prepared for later life. Emotional reactions != smart ones.

[flagged]

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#18

Post by Liquix »

constantcrying wrote: post #10

[flagged]

partially to guarantee a base level of competence and knowledge, partly to condition a society of good workers.

the modern public school system was designed during the height of the industrial revolution to pump out laborers. by adulthood it seems natural to show up in the morning, complete tasks assigned by authority figures, receive discipline or praise, then go home for dinner.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#20

Post by brainzap »

PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

the goal of school and what it is used for are different thing. School is childcare
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