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Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

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Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#291

Post by _heimdall »

tw04 wrote: post #267
sinuhe69 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the origins are so fuzzy, I guess other manufacturers would very soon adjust their part lists/part origins to avoid the tariff?

Fuzzy is a feature, not a flaw. It allows the president to unilaterally pick winner and losers. Other manufacturers can do all sorts of things to try to be compliant, but ultimately the only way to be in compliance is to bend the knee. They’re welcome to sue, but that could take years and millions to figure out.

Based on the previous comment, it sounds like the fuzziness well predates Trump.

Are you arguing that the fuzziness was built into the system previously to allow presidents to pick winners and losers in the auto industry? Do you know if there are clear examples of past presidents actually using that power?

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#292

Post by yoyohello13 »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #227
kibibu wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Change.

Nation-wide Chesterton's Fence happening right now, with people learning a hard lesson soon enough. Let's just hope it won't be too late to repair their broken systems.

The only real issue is these assholes are taking me down with them.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#293

Post by seanmcdirmid »

nandomrumber wrote: post #287
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's never too late to fix. The problem is the time frame. The changes made thus far present at least a decade of rebuilding to fix, and we're only 100 days in.

[flagged]

Please don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. We were much better off the last 4 years than it looks like we will be for the next, but it was far from ideal/perfect.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#294

Post by _heimdall »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #260
leereeves wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably nigh-impossible for some OEMs. Impossible meaning the parts aren't yet manufactured in the US, or that they can't be for some reason?

There's no doubt that they could be. Just not as cheaply.

Access to raw materials may be a fundamental blocker there.

I had seen stats putting China's control of certain rare earth minerals as high as 80% and products like lithium batteries as high as 97%. I don't know the industry well enough to validate that, but I couldn't find anything refuting or disproving those numbers either. If true, we very well may not be able to make them here if China were to cut off those resources long term.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#295

Post by bronson »

_heimdall wrote: post #291
tw04 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuzzy is a feature, not a flaw. It allows the president to unilaterally pick winner and losers. Other manufacturers can do all sorts of things to try to be compliant, but ultimately the only way to be in compliance is to bend the knee. They’re welcome to sue, but that could take years and millions to figure out.

Based on the previous comment, it sounds like the fuzziness well predates Trump. Are you arguing that the fuzziness was built into the system previously to allow presidents to pick winners and losers in the auto industry? Do you know if there are clear examples of past presidents actually using that power?

Sure, it's an inherently fuzzy concept, but that hasn't mattered much until now.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#296

Post by mindslight »

linguae wrote: post #125
fullshark wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “libertarians” who are in bed with Trump however…

The behavior I’ve seen from so many libertarians from 2017 onward, especially during the pandemic, January 6th, and Trump’s reelection, has revealed so much to me and has made me rethink my libertarianism. So many libertarians, when pressed, would gladly align themselves with the far-right for their own benefit, whether to accelerate the destruction of the state they hate so much, or whether because, deep down inside…

I'm right there with you, friend. I still consider myself a 'libertarian' though. Just always with a small 'l' because the party is garbage, as the ideals are primed to spread corporate propaganda like wildfire once someone buys into the fallacy that coercion by non-governmental entities is definitionally impossible.

When I was younger I'd do online political tests and invariably come back with left-libertarian. Then the detour into cpunks, ancap, and the "two axis political chart" made me see myself unaligned and see a lot of utility in rightism. But that started to fall apart when it became clear that fundamentalism doesn't address the big picture of emergent layers of complexity. Ironically it was Moldbug's writing that nudged my transition back to seeing myself as latently left-aligned. No matter how much you'd like to, you can't fight thermodynamics!

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#297

Post by grugagag »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #222
AlotOfReading wrote: post #123

I'm not sure even Tesla unambiguously qualifies here. Looking at the NHTSA part 583 list for 2025 [0], none of the Tesla vehicles have a "US" content higher than 75% (which I think includes Canada?). The highest is the base Kia EV6 at 80%. This seems to be coming from the Kogod manufacturing index. That's a more qualitative ranking that attempts to deal with things like corporate structures rather than just origin li…

[flagged]

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Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#298

Post by rayiner »

mmooss wrote: post #274
rayiner wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these examples are good ones, but this one actually isn’t. I don’t know what part of the country you’re from, but in the south violence against the government is treated as distinct from violence against fellow citizens. I don’t want to debate the substance of the view, I’m just pointing out that it’s not actually contradictory like you’re implying. I grew up in virginia when it was a red state, my first reac…

> in the south violence against the government is treated as distinct from violence against fellow citizens From what I see and know, among conservative supporters violence against police is strongly condemned and to be harshly punished, as is any form of protest that is arguably the slightest bit disruptive. > chiefly concerned with protecting the majority from the government. In fact, by their actions, they make th…

> From what I see and know, among conservative supporters violence against police is strongly condemned and to be harshly punished, as is any form of protest that is arguably the slightest bit disruptive.

The question is who the police are being deployed to protect, private citizens or the government itself. Ordinarily police are deployed to protect citizens from criminals, so it’s bad to attack the police. But the Capitol police are protecting government officials from citizens, so attacking them is less bad. That’s the view.

> 60s ... traditional It's a nice tactic to try to attribute those who disagree to a passing fancy, and your beliefs to 'tradition'.

The assertion that the civil rights era signaled a major shift in views about the relationship between individuals and the government is hardly controversial. There’s a book on this idea (probably more than one): https://lawliberty.org/did-the-civil-rights-constitution-dis....

Indeed, folks in the progressive left share more or less the same premise. If you talk to a progressive about foundational principles like federalism and limited government, the chief response is that those ideas were championed by our forebearers so that the government wouldn’t be powerful enough to protect minorities from the majority. The point of disagreement is about whether the new approach is better than the traditional one.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#299

Post by kenjackson »

nkrisc wrote: post #242
rat87 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think most Republicans want the destruction of our country so no I don't think he's an accurate reflection

And yet he dominates the party. How could that be without popular support from the party base?

They wanted destruction of minorities (racial, sexual, gender, religious), but not of the country. They still hold out hope that Trump will hurt them more in the long run. It’s an extremely mean-spirited party at this point.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#300

Post by grugagag »

loeg wrote: post #289
rectang wrote: post #7

I have zero faith in "free market" ideologues, because what we actually get when they gain power is just favoritism for "free market" ideologues.

Trump isn't a free market ideologue and never has been. I'm not sure what you expected. He didn't conceal his viewpoints; if you are surprised, I think you weren't paying much attention.

I don’t know about markets but he claimed to be a free speech ideologue. But then he bought twitter and proved otherwise.
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