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LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

librelingo.app

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Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#171

Post by dfxm12 »

Tor3 wrote: post #4

There wasn't much to read there, but why aspire to be an alternative to Duolingo of all things? Duolingo focuses on learning by translation, basically. It's even in the name: "Duolingo". It's an utterly broken approach to learning languages, except for the very initial phase where you're getting just enough to move on to modern methods (i.e. avoid translation like the plague, to start with). Which is exactly why a co…

Duolingo is free and convenient. That alone makes it better than a lot of tools. With a few months long streak in Italian, I could get by on vacation & get the gist of some sports blogs. I think it's fine if people aren't motivated to go beyond this point.

It really did help with vocab. No, duolingo didn't teach the finer points of grammar, but it's not like native speakers speak like Dante wrote anyway... These experiences have also motivated me to explore other ways of learning Italian. That wouldn't have happened without a free and convenient tool like duolingo.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#172

Post by bluGill »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #57
sudahtigabulan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the pre-internet ways are just fine - textbooks, phrasebooks, other kinds of books geared towards self-learners. With them, one must be just a little bit more proactive, though. You can also sign up to in-person classes.

I think books are probably the worst way to learn a language I learned French and my experience from best to worst ways to learn were: 1. 1-1 lessons with language teacher (by far the most effective way to learn) 2. audio lessons (Michel Thomas Method) 3. Visiting France a lot, interacting with French people (my wife is french) (and yes, for me this was less impactful than listening to audio lessons) 4. Duolingo (did…

Schools vary a lot. Some schools are really good, but a lot of them are bad. Schools are typically held back by those who don't care and so disrupt the class. (this isn't always bad, for kids learning how to deal with other kids is itself an important lesson - home school kids tend to do well on tests with much less time spent in study, but they always show a lack of meeting diverse people in my experience)

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#174

Post by pergadad »

Very nice initiative, the language space is overcrowded with commercial offers that have an incentive to keep you locked in. Apart from LanguageTransfer there seem to be few other good offers.

That said, looking at the current offer it seems to lack the one thing Duolingo offers: Duolingo (for all its many faults and pedagogical uselessness) takes the burden of decision making away - I don't need to really think what to do next. Here I don't have this guidance - do I start with basics? Or introduction? Or something else?

Crucial in my view would be to provide a path or at least a tree to guide the user where to go. This will make it easy to jump in and get carried along.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#175

Post by bluGill »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #74
broodbucket wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's AI slop (or hastily human generated slop, hard to tell) in Duolingo so I won't advocate for its quality, but I've been trying to use several different flagship models for language learning (with a native speaker on speeddial to fact check things) and they get stuff wrong a lot. LLMs are absolutely not ready to be your sole source for language learning. They seem perfectly competent at communicating in whateve…

> LLMs are absolutely not ready to be your sole source for language learning. > They seem perfectly competent at communicating in whatever language you want These two sentences contradict; that's the only thing you want for language learning. > but for example, explaining grammatical concepts of one language in another language they have been surprisingly incompetent at in my experience Doesn't matter.

The two sentences do not contradict. Using LLMs alone would be bad. However they can be used with other things. Most people are get fluent in a language use several different methods to learn.

It isn't clear if LLMs are good. The formal studies cannot possibly be done so don't bother looking. (a few early studies might be done, but not enough to draw conclusions). And of course LLMs may well change in the future so even if you have a conclusion it may not apply to what we see next year.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#176

Post by makingstuffs »

frank20022 wrote: post #75
makingstuffs wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I really don’t get all the hate towards DuoLingo on this site. Granted, it isn’t going to make you fluent alone but it is very good at keeping you sharp and getting your feet wet. Name one sole app/course which will teach you absolutely everything there is to know about a given subject. There are none. All learning needs multiple avenues in order to be effective. Even if you take part in a course with tutors th…

Because duolingo is designed for addiction (that's how they make money), not actual learning (learning would mean you'd stop using the thing, no good for stakeholders). There is no sole app that makes you go from 0 to C2, but there are infinitely superior tools that actually make you learn , and not the self-complacent pretend-like-learning pastime that duo is. For a start, almost every other app succeeds at not trea…

I have to disagree in that you would stop using the app if you learn a language. Learning is a lifelong task and becoming proficient in a language does not mean you will stay proficient in a language. It takes constant refreshing in order to keep sharp.

Is Duo the best thing on the planet? No, does it serve a purpose? Yes. The reality is that, if people see their skills improving as a result of using the app (gamification etc included) then it doing its job.

> There is no sole app that makes you go from 0 to C2, but there are infinitely superior tools that actually make you learn, and not the self-complacent pretend-like-learning pastime that duo is.

This I strongly disagree with. Nothing can _make_ you learn other than your own willingness to do so. If you have the desire to learn, you will. If you do not, you won't. It is that simple and that is applicable to any subject.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#177

Post by TheJoeMan »

pergadad wrote: post #174

Very nice initiative, the language space is overcrowded with commercial offers that have an incentive to keep you locked in. Apart from LanguageTransfer there seem to be few other good offers. That said, looking at the current offer it seems to lack the one thing Duolingo offers: Duolingo (for all its many faults and pedagogical uselessness) takes the burden of decision making away - I don't need to really think what…

Do any alternatives take a more "fully immersive" approach? I tried this LibreLingo, but the first question I got was "Which of these is The Sun?".

Once you learn/memorize a few basic Spanish phrases such as "¿Qué significa?" you can stay immersed in the language. When you see a photo of the sun, you need to jump straight to El Sol, not Photo->"The Sun"->"El Sol".

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#178

Post by bluGill »

bornfreddy wrote: post #31
mawadev wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how this type of critique pops up when someone sits down and makes a free/libre version of an app with a flawed premise.

Well, you can also understand it as "while you are at it, maybe try to fix the fundamental flaws in DuoLingo?". DuoLingo is great at keeping learners motivated, but at learning - not so much (in my experience).

One thing duolingo should he is after every 5 ten minute sessions it should be a ten minute "slow news in the target language" session. There are lots of other options on this line. Really every duolingo style app needs to tell people sooner "you are done, go find something else", either do that by refusing to let them use the app (that will make the VC's unhappy), or give them a different style of study that is more useful than flashcards.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#179

Post by anothereng »

The problem with duolingo is that translating a language is not the best way to learn a language. The best way is to make a connection between the concept and the word. Like rosetta stone does. An open source rosetta stone would be better, at least for learning vocabulary

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#180

Post by stefs »

cookie_monsta wrote: post #87
aquariusDue wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In bed?! You gotta multitask if you want to get things done, try on the toilet next time.

If you are spending 30 minutes on the toilet, language fluency is not your biggest problem

if i spend 30 minutes on the toilet, standing up again is my biggest problem
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