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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#831

Post by HaZeust »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #592
slg wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's a poor child that's being withheld access to their medication and to their oncologists, and the adults in the room—adults in uniforms, adults with guns, adults in suits and adults in black robes—all of these adults are doing their adult things with their adult words, and the sum total of all that is the child still is without their cancer medicine. People like to blame these sort of situations on leadership…

> every individual involved in this is making a personal choice to let this happen. To be fair, you and I are involved. I'm on vacation in Mexico. You're presumably also doing something comfortable. We've had, in the span of days, a judge arrested in her court room and multiple U.S. citizens--children, no less---illegally detained and deported. It's blowing my mind to say this. But the right is clearly using violence…

Is there any collective action going on besides lip-service protests?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#832

Post by [deleted] »

blinky81 wrote: post #354

I cannot for the life of me understand why Americans have such a problem with other people coming here to seek a better life. Half this country has been tricked into seeing hardworking immigrants as a threat to their safety and livelihood — but by all metrics, immigrants are a net positive to society. I also take issue with the idea that this extreme exclusionary mindset is somehow new to America. A lot of people fra…

[deleted]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#833

Post by [deleted] »

blinky81 wrote: post #354

I cannot for the life of me understand why Americans have such a problem with other people coming here to seek a better life. Half this country has been tricked into seeing hardworking immigrants as a threat to their safety and livelihood — but by all metrics, immigrants are a net positive to society. I also take issue with the idea that this extreme exclusionary mindset is somehow new to America. A lot of people fra…

[deleted]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#834

Post by anonfordays »

blinky81 wrote: post #354

I cannot for the life of me understand why Americans have such a problem with other people coming here to seek a better life. Half this country has been tricked into seeing hardworking immigrants as a threat to their safety and livelihood — but by all metrics, immigrants are a net positive to society. I also take issue with the idea that this extreme exclusionary mindset is somehow new to America. A lot of people fra…

>Half this country has been tricked into seeing hardworking immigrants as a threat to their safety and livelihood — but by all metrics, immigrants are a net positive to society.

We should highlight there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration when it comes to the net impact on society:

"Illegal immigrants are a net fiscal drain, meaning they receive more in government services than they pay in taxes ... Like their less-educated and low-income U.S.-born counterparts, the tax payments of illegal immigrants do not come close to covering the cost they create."[0]

Illegal immigration also drives up housing costs and depresses wages for lower wage earners.[1]

[0] https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116727/witnesses/...

[1] https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Camar...

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#835

Post by [deleted] »

mikeyouse wrote: post #408
madcadmium wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by all metrics, immigrants are a net positive to society. What about wage suppression?

In study after study, immigrants actually raise the wages of citizen workers by taking the lower paying jobs while citizens can then be more productive. The idea they suppress wages is just another form of the ‘lump of labor’ fallacy. https://www.jstor.org/stable/41426727 https://www.dagliano.unimi.it/media/12-Ottaviano-Peri-2008.p...

[deleted]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#836

Post by [deleted] »

mikeyouse wrote: post #408
madcadmium wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by all metrics, immigrants are a net positive to society. What about wage suppression?

In study after study, immigrants actually raise the wages of citizen workers by taking the lower paying jobs while citizens can then be more productive. The idea they suppress wages is just another form of the ‘lump of labor’ fallacy. https://www.jstor.org/stable/41426727 https://www.dagliano.unimi.it/media/12-Ottaviano-Peri-2008.p...

[deleted]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#837

Post by oblio »

tomrod wrote: post #340
oblio wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are extremely cruel. The real solution to this is to end jus solis. Separating children from parents is incredibly cruel, inhumane, even.

> The real solution to this is to end jus solis. No, that's a step down a terrible return to pre-Civil War policy. We should be actively fighting against enslavement and for due process, not throwing our hands up and saying "well, guess we can't [bring them back from El Salvador, have a sane policy with respect to families, have people's rights to citizenship and legal residence respected]".

Well, I wish you luck with that, you're currently losing.

I have nothing to gain from the US devolving from a democracy, but you're headed that way.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#838

Post by oblio »

immibis wrote: post #805
hsuduebc2 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone who down voted this comment please explain why? Is this because you do not agree with his general stance or because it simplifies and doesn't contribute to the debate?

Because it recommends the government should just ignore the constitution.

No, I'm saying that the US government should be able to change the constitution, if its citizens want it. Apparently about 50% of the US population is rabidly anti-immigration.

All this status quo is doing is creating all sort of gray area cruelty. Just be open about it, become anti-immigration, but make it fair. The US is basically the only developed Western country that I know of where you don't even have fixed time frame to become a citizen. In the EU + CANZUK if you live lawfully in a country you become a citizen in N years. The N is well known ahead of time.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#839

Post by oblio »

bee_rider wrote: post #665
oblio wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

End jus solis. Allow all current parents to stay. There ya go, the humane solution to this.

Birthright citizenship is explicitly included in the 14’th amendment of the US constitution. Technically the constitution could be amended again. But if we include wildly controversial constitutional amendments that one of our parties would be completely opposed in the list of possibilities, the conversation will quickly get silly.

> But if we include wildly controversial constitutional amendments that one of our parties would be completely opposed in the list of possibilities, the conversation will quickly get silly.

You're this close from becoming a dictatorship, things could become very silly regardless.

If anything, I'd say Trump is just a silly Sulla. Sulla was somewhat benevolent, he retired. But he paved the way for Caesar and Augustus (people who really meant business, especially Augustus).

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#840

Post by oblio »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #827
bee_rider wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really so? It seems odd because not every country has soil-based birthright citizenship. So, there must be some combinations that will result in a stateless person (although I would expect that this is an exceptional case that is just handled as an exception).

And it causes problems.

Where? I haven't really heard of many cases like this. Usually the most abuse that happens is someone "forgetting" their citizenship and trying to gain asylum, because they know they can't get citizenship otherwise, anyway.
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