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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#801

Post by shadowgovt »

stefap2 wrote: post #659
slg wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Will you believe them in the future? An underdiscussed frustrating aspect of this whole era is that there is never any true retrospection. There is no adjustment in the credibility of the people who predicted exactly how things would play out or the people whose predictions ended up being incredibly wrong. If there is a lack of consequence for being wrong, it ends up meaning there won't be any consequences for malic…

I think the retrospection should be why the massive influx was allowed to happen between 2020 to 2024. Because it did happened before, so it's not like we didn't know this will/can happen. There should be massive increase in processing of claims. Not extrajudciary deporting people. Why would somebody predict extrajudicial deporting if that hasn't happened before?

It did happen before.

The last time we made this guy president.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#802

Post by shadowgovt »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #600
low_tech_love wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically you came to the same conclusion as everyone else who is against this (and who I assume you would consider to be your political opponents): that even though it sounds good and reasonable on paper (as a populist concept), in practice it is invariably used for arbitrary exercise of power. Here is the thing: hard and complex problems require hard and complex solutions, but you chose to put in power the peopl…

> hard and complex problems require hard and complex solutions There's actually a simple solution to illegal immigration: go after the employers. We don't because we want to have our cake and eat it too. (Same reason these raids aren't happening on farms in red states.)

That one is also hard and complex in the sense that it will force the country to come to terms with how much of its economy is based on ignoring its own laws and an incoherent concept of fairness. In a democracy, getting people to accept pain (in this case, higher prices) to write a moral error that they generally experience only in the abstract is known hard; it's one of the reasons America clung to slavery so long, because in addition to unpaid labor propping up the corner of the Southern economy, the northern economy benefited from cheap raw materials.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#803

Post by shadowgovt »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #637
like_any_other wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> could as well blame this as a necessary consequence of that prior neglect The endgame for this policy is a Democrat President detaining abroad--solely on executive authority--January 6th types, and other violent criminals on the right. (Or worse, nonviolent agitators.) Habeas corpus predates the Magna Carta [1] for a reason. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus#Origins_in_Engla...

I suspect you're being downvoted because your statement is interpreted as a both sides argument, but you are correct. The thing about up taking off guard rails is that they are taken off for whoever holds the power in the future. If this Trump administration policy is allowed to stand, there isn't anything stopping a future president, Democrat or Republican, from uncitizening political opponents and shuffling them off to a prison beyond the range of the press to observe or Congress to oversee.

It's extremely dangerous, a viper striking at the heel of the checks and balances against tyranny soaking this government.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#804

Post by shadowgovt »

AustinDev wrote: post #569
MyOutfitIsVague wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no evidence of illegals voting in any significant number at all. GOP voter suppression had a far bigger effect than a minuscule number of illegals trying to vote for whatever reason.

They count toward the electoral college in the census. There is some recent analysis that suggests non-citizens give a ~20 seat advantage to 'blue states' in the house and electoral college. I'll see if I can dig up the source. They don't have to vote to provide an electoral advantage.

They should count toward the electoral college in the census. The authority the states hold over the functioning of the federal government should be a function of the number of people the states are responsible for.

Purely hypothetically, if red States don't like this they could address the issue by adopting policies that encourage immigrants, undocumented and otherwise, to come to their states.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#805

Post by immibis »

hsuduebc2 wrote: post #347
oblio wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

End jus solis. Allow all current parents to stay. There ya go, the humane solution to this.

Can someone who down voted this comment please explain why? Is this because you do not agree with his general stance or because it simplifies and doesn't contribute to the debate?

Because it recommends the government should just ignore the constitution.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#806

Post by [deleted] »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #757
tomrod wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's spelled "border", and you'll note I spelled these out in this alleged suggestion as potential outcomes and associated as attributes. As Reagan was good for Amnesty, the right can find it in their ideals go support it.

Regan got stabbed in the back , and I think that burnt a lot of good will and hope for such a solution. It worked for Regan because there was bipartisan support to enforce the law moving forward. I don't see that today so we get a yoyo effect

[deleted]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#807

Post by tomrod »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #757
tomrod wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's spelled "border", and you'll note I spelled these out in this alleged suggestion as potential outcomes and associated as attributes. As Reagan was good for Amnesty, the right can find it in their ideals go support it.

Regan got stabbed in the back , and I think that burnt a lot of good will and hope for such a solution. It worked for Regan because there was bipartisan support to enforce the law moving forward. I don't see that today so we get a yoyo effect

It's spelled "Reagan."

And there was a bipartisanship solution under Biden that got nixed when Trump, then an unelected citizen, cried to congressional leadership about it hurting his chances for reelection. Like so many other things this weak autocrat cries about, he made things worse.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#808

Post by JumpCrisscross »

watwut wrote: post #786
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dad of a kid was literally fighting for the kid to stay. He is an American Are you saying he's figuratively American, or that the father is a U.S. citizen. Because VML's petition for writ of habeas [1] doesn't mention the latter. [1] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69940863/1/v-m-l-v-harp...

In the case I have in mind, dad was an American, not to be deported anywhere cause he is an American and engaged in legal figt to keep the kid. The "kid cant be without a parent" excuse does not work there.

Which case is this?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#809

Post by tremon »

worik wrote: post #759
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every individual involved in this is making a personal choice to let this happen. To be fair, you and I are involved. I'm on vacation in Mexico. You're presumably also doing something comfortable. We've had, in the span of days, a judge arrested in her court room and multiple U.S. citizens--children, no less---illegally detained and deported. It's blowing my mind to say this. But the right is clearly using violence…

> That means there is not only legitimacy, but necessity, in the opposition to begin deploying violence as a political tactic as well. No. It. Does. Not. Violence begets violence, and it is all our interests to fight against violence wherever, whenever. Fight fire, with water

Violence begets violence

Why is it that this mantra is only ever employed to discourage opposition, but never to explain the logical consequence of violence employed by the government?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#810

Post by JumpCrisscross »

eptcyka wrote: post #785
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I voted for the leopard party I didn't think the leopards would eat the faces of people I like This isn't a good-faith interpretation of their comment. There are plenty of illegal immigrants with a criminal record. Trump's pitch was to deport them. There was also a pitch that strongly hinted at deporting basically anyone who isn't white, and I think this appealed to the racist fifth of Americans [1], but plent…

Presumably, to have a criminal record, the authorities would have to apprehend the individual in question. Why wouldn’t the individual be deported then and there, if they immigrated illegally?

> Why wouldn’t the individual be deported then and there, if they immigrated illegally?

Because enforcing immigration policy isn’t the job of local and state police. It can be, if they choose it to be. But many haven’t for a variety of reasons ranging from moral opposition to not giving a fuck.

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