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What Porn Did to American Culture?

theatlantic.com

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Re: What Porn Did to American Culture?

#71

Post by nerdjon »

thraway79879s8d wrote: post #68
mystraline wrote: post #22

The article claims porn, and sure, that's a part. The bigger issue here is outmoded predominant protestant christian views of 'morality'. And that percolates all through the rest of USA culture, including into advertisements and commercialism. Their view of sex is as a sin, so its shamed, hidden, and secretly desired. All these things have popped up with all these pretty terrible results. Sexuality is 'tittalting' so…

You're right, but I don't think "just go to a sex party" scales up. There is simply way more male interest in such things. (Though yes, a lot of men would chicken-out last minute too.) A gestalt of 3rd wave feminisism is "maybe if women are liberated, they will be hornier like men", and there was a huge amount of cultural messaging in this direction. It does not work, and as the interview entails, there is a lot of r…

I think it is really important to take societal pressure on woman into account here. Which you kinda touch on, but not fully.

If a woman is a slut, they are shamed. If a man is a slut, they are cheered on.

Or put another way, a woman has to play "hard to get" and can't be "easy". When was the last time you heard a man called "easy"?

There is a lot more shame put on woman for having a healthy sexuality that often leads to not exploring their desires.

Re: What Porn Did to American Culture?

#72

Post by thraway79879s8d »

nerdjon wrote: post #71
thraway79879s8d wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but I don't think "just go to a sex party" scales up. There is simply way more male interest in such things. (Though yes, a lot of men would chicken-out last minute too.) A gestalt of 3rd wave feminisism is "maybe if women are liberated, they will be hornier like men", and there was a huge amount of cultural messaging in this direction. It does not work, and as the interview entails, there is a lot of r…

I think it is really important to take societal pressure on woman into account here. Which you kinda touch on, but not fully. If a woman is a slut, they are shamed. If a man is a slut, they are cheered on. Or put another way, a woman has to play "hard to get" and can't be "easy". When was the last time you heard a man called "easy"? There is a lot more shame put on woman for having a healthy sexuality that often lead…

Absolutely that exists, and I used to be more optimistic that with enough cultural shift that would go away and the problem would be solved, but now I am skeptical.

There's just tons of writing on women against frustration with changing cultural norms around casual sex that doesn't mention stigma at all, and I just can't hand-wave all that away as "subliminated stigma", as convenient as that would be!

Re: What Porn Did to American Culture?

#73

Post by pseudalopex »

sepositus wrote: post #49
RHSeeger wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Never once have I found a single story that ended well. It seems like this is a result of selection bias. If you're already seeing a group of people that have decided that porn is a problem for them, then the porn is going to be a problem for the people you're seeing.

Yes, I've updated the original comment since so many people are getting tripped up over this. As I've said in another thread, this can pretty easily be implied by my comment, so it wasn't stated out loud. But I've added an aside to make it more clear.

Your original words did not imply you were aware of the selection bias. Don't blame others for your mistakes.

Re: What Porn Did to American Culture?

#74

Post by mystraline »

SequoiaHope wrote: post #64
mystraline wrote: post #22

The article claims porn, and sure, that's a part. The bigger issue here is outmoded predominant protestant christian views of 'morality'. And that percolates all through the rest of USA culture, including into advertisements and commercialism. Their view of sex is as a sin, so its shamed, hidden, and secretly desired. All these things have popped up with all these pretty terrible results. Sexuality is 'tittalting' so…

Sex parties are fun! I’m in the “embrace sex, skip the shame” boat. In the Bay Area there’s a really solid polyamory community. I’ve been reading the books and working on my own communication issues and anxieties for a good 15 years now and at this point things flow so smoothly. I have so many people in my life I’m on a kissing basis with. It’s so lovely! I’m surrounded by genuine connection and affection. Me and my…

Ah, so true.

I'm sure you're reading some of the other comments to me.

For example, I am married. And my partner has similar views as me. And there's nothing at all like looking at a man or woman, looking at my partner and a sly grin and nod, and we both go ask together!

But the most bile and hatred I see come from the puritanical groups of Christianity. They cannot only fail to understand, but I get moralized the whole time as well. Like, try it before you knock it?

And I'm even getting flack for recommending STD testing. Some diseases can hide, like herpes and HIV. I'd rather know for me and my lovers, rather than hurt them. And, its not much different than a covid test - keep the people around you safe.

Re: What Porn Did to American Culture?

#75

Post by smitty1e »

mystraline wrote: post #22

The article claims porn, and sure, that's a part. The bigger issue here is outmoded predominant protestant christian views of 'morality'. And that percolates all through the rest of USA culture, including into advertisements and commercialism. Their view of sex is as a sin, so its shamed, hidden, and secretly desired. All these things have popped up with all these pretty terrible results. Sexuality is 'tittalting' so…

> The bigger issue here is outmoded predominant protestant christian views of 'morality'. And that percolates all through the rest of USA culture, including into advertisements and commercialism. Their view of sex is as a sin, so its shamed, hidden, and secretly desired.

Total strawman argument.

However, the bigger issue here is the demographic bomb detonating in slow motion. Demoting sexuality to a video game at your Bacchanal appears to be slow-motion suicide.

Possibly you could explain how your approach perpetuates the society, please?

Re: What Porn Did to American Culture?

#76

Post by davidmurdoch »

mystraline wrote: post #22

The article claims porn, and sure, that's a part. The bigger issue here is outmoded predominant protestant christian views of 'morality'. And that percolates all through the rest of USA culture, including into advertisements and commercialism. Their view of sex is as a sin, so its shamed, hidden, and secretly desired. All these things have popped up with all these pretty terrible results. Sexuality is 'tittalting' so…

> Their view of sex is as a sin

Interesting perspective. But this is actually what Protestant Christians believe: https://ca.thegospelcoalition.org/columns/ad-fontes/5-surpri...

Re: What Porn Did to American Culture?

#77

Post by ta12653421 »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #57

> One of the specific things I’m noticing now is the mainstreaming of really ugly, regressive treatment in politics and mainstream culture—not just of women but of immigrants, gay people, trans people... And my theory for why it’s happening is that certain kinds of porn have inured so many people to cruelty. Besides being a complete stretch, has anyone even showed that men generally watch porn with cruelty? It's neve…

no link/source here, but IIRC the most selected content by female users of PornHub is "FemDom", if i remember this correctly

does this somehow relate to your idea?

Re: What Porn Did to American Culture?

#78

Post by pseudalopex »

ta12653421 wrote: post #77
Noumenon72 wrote: post #57

> One of the specific things I’m noticing now is the mainstreaming of really ugly, regressive treatment in politics and mainstream culture—not just of women but of immigrants, gay people, trans people... And my theory for why it’s happening is that certain kinds of porn have inured so many people to cruelty. Besides being a complete stretch, has anyone even showed that men generally watch porn with cruelty? It's neve…

no link/source here, but IIRC the most selected content by female users of PornHub is "FemDom", if i remember this correctly does this somehow relate to your idea?

Lesbian was the Pornhub category most viewed by women in 2024. Female domination was none of the top 15.[1]

[1] https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2024-year-in-review#gender-...

Re: What Porn Did to American Culture?

#79

Post by pseudalopex »

DangitBobby wrote: post #67
vjulian wrote: post #62

Yet another crappy article about sex from an otherwise respectable publication. Why does this keep happening? The article assumes a negative definition of “porn” without ever seriously examining it. As usual, sexual depiction is assumed as inherently harmful, isolating, or degrading without any good argument as to why. Then, it makes a leap implying that the rise of pornography explains social problems like lonelines…

> Why does this keep happening? There is a Sophie Gilbert who writes for The Atlantic, so maybe that's how this article came to be. I haven't been able to determine if it's the same person or a coincidence.

It's the same person. The writer called her my colleague and linked a recent article.

Re: What Porn Did to American Culture?

#80

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

This interview makes no sense. Maybe she actually had some arguments in her book but she didn't express them in this article.

Paradoxically, I'd have a more sound argument if I wanted to argue for the opposite (or, more precisely, the disappearance of sexual intercourse form Hollywood moves - it was omnipresent in the 80s and even 90s).

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