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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#701

Post by [deleted] »

AustinDev wrote: post #344
beloch wrote: post #291

Let's do a time warp. It's 2018. Children are being separated from their parents and kept in cages[1]. It's really important to notice that the pictures in this article are not from reporters, leaks or anything of the sort. They were released by Customs and Border Protection and, no doubt, make things look better than they were. What has changed since Trump's first term? Yes, there is now a stronger sensitivity to se…

Let's do another time warp. It's 2000, Bill Clinton is about to wrap up his second term and has deported more people in that term than any president ever at nearly 7,000,000 deportations. Trump barely had 2,000,000 deportations in his first term. Trump's first term was the lowest level of deportations for any administration since Carter. Obama, Reagan, Both Bushes, Clinton and Biden all deported more people every ter…

[deleted]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#703

Post by Terr_ »

shadowgovt wrote: post #426
chasd00 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We only really have the father's and judge's account of events here Given that, then this whole thread is pointless. I just assumed people were more informed based on what they’re claiming.

The point of due process is to construct such a record. The fact that due process is being denied in these circumstances is one of the reasons that so much of the public discussion is rumor and innuendo. And this is actually one of the many things that this executive doesn't seem to grasp about the fundamentals of how this England-inherited, American-modified government functions. Due process doesn't just protect the…

> The point of due process is to construct such a record.

Right a lack of records is itself an indicator due-process wasn't provided.

So in this case, a common saying does not apply: Absence of evidence is evidence of absence!

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#704

Post by tomrod »

belorn wrote: post #670
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every individual involved in this is making a personal choice to let this happen. To be fair, you and I are involved. I'm on vacation in Mexico. You're presumably also doing something comfortable. We've had, in the span of days, a judge arrested in her court room and multiple U.S. citizens--children, no less---illegally detained and deported. It's blowing my mind to say this. But the right is clearly using violence…

[flagged]

Things don't have to move towards a civil war. Congress needs to get it's druthers and start being Congress instead of enablers?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#705

Post by koolba »

shadowgovt wrote: post #682
koolba wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the complete sentence you’d realize I’m referring to cheating against every other potential immigrant to come to the USA. > To the extent someone is unequivocally cheating, it's ICE. So what exactly is ICE supposed to do if they are deporting the illegal alien mother and child is a citizen? Forget the possibility of a deported father. Say a single mother with no legal status is being deported. Does she no…

In a debate between the concrete reality of US children being kicked out of the country and hypothetical potential non-citizens not being able to become a citizen, I will side with the child every time. I don't think that's a radical position. Here's an interesting question: are undocumented immigrants actually stopping non-citizens from becoming citizens? These two things are actually quite independent, yes? You're…

> Here's an interesting question: are undocumented immigrants actually stopping non-citizens from becoming citizens? These two things are actually quite independent, yes? You're building a very similar argument to "piracy is bad because it takes money out of the hands of the RIAA."

So in your analogy the RIAA are the huddled masses yearning to breathe free that respect immigration laws?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#706

Post by tomrod »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #641
whoknowsidont wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The other thinks that law should not apply to illegal immigrants and even legal deportations are a due process violation. Where? Who? You're just making this up.

Im entirely honest. There are many in this thread suggesting amnesty or non-enforcement. If I dont want to take part in an open boarder or anti-enforcement protest, where do I go? What do you think? Should all illegal immigrants be deported?

It's spelled "border", and you'll note I spelled these out in this alleged suggestion as potential outcomes and associated as attributes.

As Reagan was good for Amnesty, the right can find it in their ideals go support it.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#707

Post by AustinDev »

JackYoustra wrote: post #685
AustinDev wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sovereignty may have been an imprecise word choice for sure. However, I do not think having 10's of millions of people in the country without legal status who can be easily abused is 'a good thing'. I also don't think amnesty is a viable solution. So mass remigration is the only real solution I see. As we approach a post-labor economy over the coming decades how many more people do we actually need? I don't know I'm…

The free market will determine the best place for these people without arbitrary categories that you've given, we should let in basically anyone who wants to come. NGOs are good. They should stay, it helps with integration and placement. I don't see why you create random liberalization rules and call it free market, those are as arbitrary as the ones we currently have. People should be free to move where they want wi…

I wield power, about 10M a year in revenue. I'll read literature if you link it.

NGOS are probably not good. Beyond averages they pay their staff far more than market which indicates it's likely a scam because they don't make anything.

Prove me wrong. I'd love to be wrong.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#708

Post by tim333 »

briffle wrote: post #298
pge wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current administration has set targets for numbers of people deported(which ICE is currently behind on). That creates an incentive to skip due process in order to get more people deported more quickly (and the awareness that there will no consequences for doing so probably contributes as well)

They are also trying to push for an end to birthright citizenship.

Though they'll have a job doing that. 2/3 majority needed to change the constitution.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#709

Post by Waterluvian »

camgunz wrote: post #677
thechao wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been in the get-out-the-vote space for 25 years, now. I’ve been politically active against gerrymandering nearly as long. My wife was tooth-and-nails in the redistricting fight (in Texas; Texas!) for ~10 years. Here’s my hands-on experience: at least half the people you meet are defective, to a scary extent, functionally in terms of empathy. Probably two thirds have serious executive functioning deficits. That m…

I grew up working class in Indiana, and can confirm. My in-laws were reeling after the 2016 election and they just couldn't understand how people could vote for Trump, basically. My answer was "you're polite, highly educated, upper middle class people, most people everywhere are not like you. That doesn't make them bad or less than, but they make bad decisions basically constantly. This is just one in a long stream o…

I dunno. I think we need to can it with the PCness of “it doesn’t make them bad.”

It does. Constantly making bad decisions makes them bad. What it doesn’t do is make them any less entitled to all of their rights. Something their badness has paved way for robbing others of.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#710

Post by koolba »

shadowgovt wrote: post #681
koolba wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I cannot for the life of me understand why Americans have such a problem with other people coming here to seek a better life. Half this country has been tricked into seeing hardworking immigrants as a threat to their safety and livelihood — but by all metrics, immigrants are a net positive to society. I have no issue with legal immigration. Far from it, I’m in favor of attracting the best, brightest, and most hard…

Rights imply an obligation. What we're doing right now isn't working, isn't sustainable, and ignores several realities of how we interact with our neighboring nations (and, indeed, is a new problem... The current tight-border regime isn't even half a century old). At what point do we decide that if the laws are broken that often, perhaps it's because they're bad laws that are too incompatible with reality to be pract…

> What we're doing right now isn't working, isn't sustainable, and ignores several realities of how we interact with our neighboring nations (and, indeed, is a new problem... The current tight-border regime isn't even half a century old).

The problem with this argument is it’s downstream from a self fulfilling prophesy derived from the previous administration’s refusal to enforce the law. Illegal border crossings are down 99% over the past year. If that type of seriousness had been applied previously we wouldn’t be in the situation we are today.

We didn’t do the ounce of prevention so now we have to administer the bitter medicine that is the cure.

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