Earlier quoted context omitted.
End jus solis. Allow all current parents to stay. There ya go, the humane solution to this.
Birthright citizenship is explicitly included in the 14’th amendment of the US constitution. Technically the constitution could be amended again. But if we include wildly controversial constitutional amendments that one of our parties would be completely opposed in the list of possibilities, the conversation will quickly get silly.
ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
671–680 of 908 posts
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#672Six months ago I would have endorsed wide-scale deportations, but after seeing the consequences—families swept into jails, plain-clothes officers ambushing people on their way to work or school, and communities living in constant fear—it’s clear that indiscriminate removals are neither practical nor just. This approach diverts resources from pursuing violent offenders, erodes faith in the rule of law, and forces the…
Serious question: how did you envision "wide-scale deportations" playing out, prior to these events?
The real tragedy is that immigration is probably the reason we've outpaced other OECD nations in economic growth recently, and more to the point, immigrants almost always drive wages up. TL;DR: immigration is practically all upside.
The second part of this is that immigration and border enforcement is often pretty cruel, just by nature. You're talking about turning kids back into some Central/South American social system, breaking up families, etc. You only hear about it now because the Trump admin perversely rejoices in trumpeting the cruelty, but it's only slightly more gross now than it usually is. Until Trump, the right used to leave this part out.
https://www.ucdavis.edu/magazine/how-does-immigration-affect...
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#673Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The people of America, unfortunately, are prone to drastically evil actions when they are tricked by opportunistic political actors into believing their way of life is somehow under attack. All people are like this. When the economic prospects for you look bleak, it's very aggravating to see someone you believe is an outsider is succeeding. We see microcosms of this in the bay area where people blame tech workers f…
> When the economic prospects for you look bleak This is the richest nation on earth with a roughly 4% unemployment rate we’re talking about here.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#674Earlier quoted context omitted.
> here illegally I have to wonder what horrors and shames ones pathway of life must have taken to think a person existing in a space is summarizable as illegal. A person cannot be illegal. They cannot exist in a space illegally. They could enter a space illegally. They could be unauthorized to be in a space. But by simple fact that they exist in the world, if the law makes them illegal to exist, then that law is unju…
I think this is the rhetoric that drove the country to this point. They are here illegally. They can exist elsewhere legally. Respect for law is critical, and valorizing the breaking it undermines the very concept of society. If you want more immigration, work to increase legal quotas and update the law.
If you pass nonsensical, or worse yet, outright evil laws, not only will they not be respected, but one can reasonably argue that it is a moral duty to disrespect them and assist in their breaking. The Underground Railroad is a prominent historical example of this.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#675Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you really believe this? I've never met anyone opposed to birthright citizenship for the US. Our shared history, values, and national culture are all about immigration so this isn't computing for me. Plus the law seems settled on this issue, or at least was before Trump 2.0. I genuinely don't understand how thinking people can support the current administration's policies on numerous issues. Tried going to r/conse…
It’s pretty easy to understand, you only need to look at which subset of immigrants they have a problem with. There’s one commonality with all of them, and it is (so to speak) only skin-deep.
In the fifties and sixties, those in America who deeply concern themselves with average skin tone saw a darkening country. They believed that fast-tracking immigration for family members would allow Europeans escaping the aftermath of World War II to immigrate rapidly to America, which would bolster the numbers and tilt the national average a bit, if you will, caucasian.
... what they fundamentally failed to grasp is that after the war, America sent her fighting boys (and girls) out to enforce Democracy over Communism at the point of a sword. Sen them to countries where the average citizen was not, generally, bothered by intense direct sunlight. And those boys fell in love. With people who distinctly lacked a certain, shall we say, Innsmouth look that our bigot friends preferred in their fellow citizens. Plus, folks from geographically-adjacent countries who went through the arduous process of naturalization were able to bring their extended families in as well.
The final consequence was a policy that had been supported on one side for mostly economic and "melting pot" reasons that was also supported by bigots for decidedly bigot reasons... Turned out to make the country more diverse, not the less-diverse the bigots had hoped for.
It's a feel-good self-own story.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#676And one child deported without cancer meds. At that point you are just trying to kill people
I don't think it's intentional, but rather collateral damage from trying to do deportations quickly and at the "millions" scale
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#677Earlier quoted context omitted.
>but the truly damned are all the Americans who know and sense better but do not or cannot act properly. MLK said it best: "the moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice, who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice" And even now you have people that think showing up with clever signs around the downtown parks / public areas on the weeke…
I’ve been in the get-out-the-vote space for 25 years, now. I’ve been politically active against gerrymandering nearly as long. My wife was tooth-and-nails in the redistricting fight (in Texas; Texas!) for ~10 years. Here’s my hands-on experience: at least half the people you meet are defective, to a scary extent, functionally in terms of empathy. Probably two thirds have serious executive functioning deficits. That m…
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#678Earlier quoted context omitted.
Birthright citizenship is explicitly included in the 14’th amendment of the US constitution. Technically the constitution could be amended again. But if we include wildly controversial constitutional amendments that one of our parties would be completely opposed in the list of possibilities, the conversation will quickly get silly.
Foreign citizenship is being subject to a foreign power.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#679Why the deliberate atrocities? I read an article that starts with this proposition [1] > The real question, however, is not how America lost its way. We know the mechanics of it. It lost its way in large measure because Donald Trump, a Pied Piper of malice, led it astray, though one can’t lay all of that or even most of it on Trump. The American people, nearly half of those who voted, in their infinite wisdom empower…
When they separate undocumented children from their families in the first Trump term and did not bother to leave a paper trail so that these families could be reunited so it would take years if ever for these children to be returned to their parents, not one person in the entire chain of command was punished for it. When there are zero consequences for doing wrong, we should not be surprised the wrong doing continues…
It will make the office less desirable if people know that bad choices could send them to prison. That's probably okay. Hundreds of millions of people, surely we can find someone brave enough to still take the government roles knowing that once they leave office, it could be into a prison cell if they fuck up.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#680Earlier quoted context omitted.
>but the truly damned are all the Americans who know and sense better but do not or cannot act properly. MLK said it best: "the moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice, who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice" And even now you have people that think showing up with clever signs around the downtown parks / public areas on the weeke…
> MLK said it best: "the moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice, who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice" Are you a moderate who has a better plan? I ask that sincerely, if I've given up its not because I prefer peace but because I know a losing battle when I see one. We don't have a charismatic leader like MLK. The democratic pa…
I wouldn't say I'm a moderate, but I do have a better plan: https://runforsomething.net/