651–660 of 908 posts
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Where are these alleged twelve million newcomers? If they really poured in to tilt elections, we’d see a sudden demographic spike, yet officials keep rounding up students on legal visas and parents who’ve lived here for years—exactly the people the article labels “families who had lived in the United States for years and had deep ties to their communities.” So where are the fresh arrivals this narrative depends on?
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If you think it's wrong then it certainly does not 'has to happen if you want to live in a sovereign nation under the rule of law' If you can't criticize the overall objective (large-scale depopulation of America because so-called undesirables don't meet arbitrary legal criteria) then at least criticize the approach - don't call it an ugly but necessary business. Call it a completely unnecessary violation of civil ri…
My argument was that remigration is never going to be pretty however it is necessary to enforce your immigration laws as a nation to be fully sovereign. Deporting citizens was never part of that argument. It's obviously wrong, it's been happening at a small scale for decades. If that number changes and we see even a 2-3x growth in the number Americans mistakenly deported, I'll be the first in line to call for regime…
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> The distrust of the press has been cultivated intentionally. Yea, by the press itself, or, do you honestly believe the billionaire owner class of this form of media has done an excellent job reporting truthfully over the past 30 years? Pull yourself back from your politics and genuinely consider this.
When reading an article, how do I figure out what the “good reporter” is trying to say, and distinguish it from what the “bad owner” is trying to say? The best way I know is to carefully parse the text in its most literal form. That is what the “good reporter” is saying. The “general idea” of what is being said is probably what the editor wants. Owners and editors want “wow” articles. Journalists know most of what th…
You also seem to forget that journalists sometimes leave and become owners in their own right. Where does that blurry line begin and end, actually?
Means, motive, opportunity. It's always the same triad and you can't avoid applying to all parties involved.
Given that and the importance of broadcast media I can't imagine why anyone thought they were getting the truth. Or even if they were somehow not a highly selected and edited version of it. Designed to manipulate and control not to inform.
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My argument was that remigration is never going to be pretty however it is necessary to enforce your immigration laws as a nation to be fully sovereign. Deporting citizens was never part of that argument. It's obviously wrong, it's been happening at a small scale for decades. If that number changes and we see even a 2-3x growth in the number Americans mistakenly deported, I'll be the first in line to call for regime…
At this point I mostly agree with you, but I kinda want to keep going on the sovereignty thing. Prosecutorial discretion and state incapacity to prosecute every crime has existed... literally forever. Sovereignty only means "supreme power or authority" - I don't see how migrants threaten it, it's not like they're trying to lead an insurrection or anything.
You didn't ask but what's my ideal immigration solution? I'm not an expert but this seems common sense to me, maybe it's extreme let me know. RICO the NGO's who funded the mass migration. Offer a check and a plane ride for anyone that wants to self deport. Stiff penalties and permanent banning and deportation for those that don't take the offer. On the legal immigration side cancel all non-tourist visa types and let existing visas expire. Replace them with a simple employer sponsored visa with a ~400k/year (inflation adjusted) payroll tax and let any company that wants to pay the tax sponsor as many people as they want. The free market would sort out who is the best and brightest and bring them over. Provide these people and their immediate families with an easy path to citizenship over ~5-10 years. Probably need some solution for allowing in seasonal farm workers.
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I strongly disagree with your framing. Yes, policies can have unintended consequences and immigration policy in particular is a minefield of obvious solutions having terrible results... But that's not what we're talking about. When OP says "I was for wide-scale deportations until I saw people I like being deported", it's not a case of unintended consequences, it's a case of "When I voted for the leopard party I didn'…
> When I voted for the leopard party I didn't think the leopards would eat the faces of people I like This isn't a good-faith interpretation of their comment. There are plenty of illegal immigrants with a criminal record. Trump's pitch was to deport them. There was also a pitch that strongly hinted at deporting basically anyone who isn't white, and I think this appealed to the racist fifth of Americans [1], but plent…
I keep hearing this claim, but was there ever any proof of it?
To be precise: is there any reason why criminals cannot be caught without hunting for immigrants to deport?
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>The other thinks that law should not apply to illegal immigrants and even legal deportations are a due process violation. Where? Who? You're just making this up.
Im entirely honest. There are many in this thread suggesting amnesty or non-enforcement. If I dont want to take part in an open boarder or anti-enforcement protest, where do I go? What do you think? Should all illegal immigrants be deported?
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I'm in favor of that too, but I think this insistence on it being step 1 is actually just a resistance to solving the real problem. (Which is that employers are happy to pay below market wages to illegally employ immigrants who are here unlawfully.)
We should go after it all to include implementing E-Verify for all. Republicans are also in favor of the guest worker program to legally meet the demand. But we have to stop the flow
This is a classic political tactic to be able to say you want to do something, but never actually have to do it. Politicians use this tactic when they don't actually want to do the thing for some reason. In this case, it's because it's really unpopular with business owners, who like to employ illegal immigrants.
It's perfectly reasonable to say "we need to crack down on employers in conjunction with aggressive border and deportation enforcement". But I'm very skeptical of anyone saying "stopping the flow is step 1". I've heard that story before!
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Exactly—plenty of people said exactly what would happen. Why did you not believe them? Will you believe them in the future?
>Will you believe them in the future? An underdiscussed frustrating aspect of this whole era is that there is never any true retrospection. There is no adjustment in the credibility of the people who predicted exactly how things would play out or the people whose predictions ended up being incredibly wrong. If there is a lack of consequence for being wrong, it ends up meaning there won't be any consequences for malic…
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Have you seriously not gone through the thought exercise of why some thoughtful + well-informed people would oppose your opinion on the subject? (1) in previous centuries, the US accepted as many immigrants as could arrive “on Ellis Island” and it only took a few weeks. All of the immigration barriers that you overcame were added by American legislators many centuries after my ancestors came to America. I don’t view…
Re point (5), the "gang of eight" bill would've been the de facto process (illegally entering, having children or marrying, attempting to bring family over via chain migration) the de jure one via advertising to the rest of the word that violating US immigration law does not matter. We ended up running an experiment over the course of the last 4 years to see what that looks like and the results are grim. >There are s…