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United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

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Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#111

Post by fr0sty »

fleitz wrote: post #49
masklinn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who sends a 10 year old across the country on a plane alone? I wouldn't send a 10 year on a 30min bus ride alone. Wow. Overprotective much? At 10 I went to school by bus, alone, with 2 or 3 changes along the way (and a ~10 minutes walk between home and the bus station), total travel time was maybe 45~60mn and same thing the other way around in the evening. And I had friends boarding who took the train at the beginn…

I'll second this, in North America everything that is possible to make a child absolutely dependant is done. Parents who try to raise functioning adults are shunned. There was a national outcry because someone let their 12 year old ride a subway. You can find most of the roots of helicopter parenting in attachment parenting, the idea that a child should always be touched by their parent until they're about 5.

The child was 9, not 12. http://www.creators.com/opinion/lenore-skenazy/why-i-let-my-...

Futhermore "attachment parenting" is not the antecedent to "helicopter parenting" and certainly does not require constant contact past 1 year of age much less fife.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#112

Post by briandear »

corin_ wrote: post #66
endgame wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you're male, you won't be sitting next to any unaccompanied children, much less helping them: - http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/seat-swap-o... - http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/nurse-humiliat... - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3634055/Com... If that's standard policy in the airline industry, then half of the adult population wouldn't be able to help the poor…

That's... wow. I mean, even overlooking the obvious flaws in this logic, even if it is a paedophile sat next to the kids, what are they going to do in the middle of a flight surrounded by other people?

Yeah, imagine if they said black men couldn't sit next to white women. There would be an outrage of the highest sort. Or single women couldn't sit next to married men lest they be temptresses. It's nuts.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#113

Post by slowpoke »

colmvp wrote: post #4
FrankBooth wrote: post #3

The responsibility lies with the parents. What are they doing sending a child so young alone? United is not a baby-sitting service.

Why didn't the parents give the kid a cellphone? There's no way I'd just leave my kid to travel alone on a flight, let alone without a cell phone.

How on earth did people travel some ten or twenty years ago I wonder? You know, before cellphones were widespread or even affordable? For fuck's sake, children aren't dumb. Always treating them as if they are results in them not growing into independent adults.

Besides, unaccompanied flights are awesome as a child. I did that once, don't remember how old I was. Flew with the German Lufthansa from my parents to my grandparents. You can't imagine how adult I felt, flying (almost) all alone. I remember the attendants were all friendly and helpful, and the gentleman next to me even swapped his seat with me so I could look out of the window. It was a valuable and memorable experience.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#114

Post by greedo »

pcrh wrote: post #69
chimi wrote: post #33

This is a problem bigger than United -- which has a lot of problems. This is what you get when you subsidize bad companies that need to fail. United needs to fail so someone better can take over. The moral hazards are ruining the country. I saw it recently with farmers struggling from the drought. Compare this farmer: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7417774n who has acres full of hay that don't do well in the…

I don't think weather forecasting is currently good enough for a farmer to plan which crops to plant based on rainfall predictions. If every farmer planted a diversity of crops to account for all likely weather scenarios, then the average productivity would drop, as most crops would turn out to be unsuitable for the weather that occurred.

Exactly. Anyone that thinks farming in the US is a matter of pulling out the almanac and hoping the rain will match expectations is naive at best.

Here's the thought process a farmer goes through in deciding what to plant:

1. What's the expected market price for corn and soybean. 2. What is the cost of crop insurance? 3. What's the current rainfall estimate? 4. What's the cost of water via irrigation and the cost of the irrigation equipment. 5. What's my field rotation state? 6. How much is fertilizer? 7. What subsidies are in effect for the various crops? 8. How is my cash flow?

And so on. The stereotype of farmers either being stupid hicks or suckling at the teat of Federal subsidies is ridiculous. The technology farmers use is amazing, and the factors they have to consider are multi-variate.

Sometimes farmers get screwed, and sometimes they make a fortune. Subsidies (as well as futures and other hedges) are a means of smoothing out the market so that farmers can stay in business while also providing for steady agricultural returns. It's not a perfect system by any means, and subsidies for things like ethanol drastically distort other markets, but to try and simplify it into Farmer A works hard but dumb and Farmer B is a smart, HN guy is just too simplistic.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#115

Post by Useful_Idiot »

stonemetal wrote: post #105
jhcoaps wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post is endemic of something I see a lot on HN. You know nothing about agriculture, but you see a minor set of stories and you think you're a fucking expert. You have no idea if the diversified strategy has a higher expected value, or if it's just a variance play based on heat, or if different weather conditions could've affected interplay in a different way. You have no idea what the crop insurances for differe…

Your post is endemic of something I see a lot on HN. You know nothing about agriculture, but you see a minor set of stories and you think you're a fucking expert. What is with the create a throwaway account to insult people thing? Karma isn't worth anything why not burn it under your real username?

HN has the same issue as Reddit: accounts tend to get Hell-banned / Voted into obscurity for merely voicing alternative thought processes / not conforming to the 'logical-identity' construct that HN is comfortable with.

Proof?

This account is hell-banned, or at least it was.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#116

Post by eslachance »

corin_ wrote: post #66
endgame wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you're male, you won't be sitting next to any unaccompanied children, much less helping them: - http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/seat-swap-o... - http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/nurse-humiliat... - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3634055/Com... If that's standard policy in the airline industry, then half of the adult population wouldn't be able to help the poor…

That's... wow. I mean, even overlooking the obvious flaws in this logic, even if it is a paedophile sat next to the kids, what are they going to do in the middle of a flight surrounded by other people?

Groom them and talk them into coming with them outside the plane, for example. Having been on the receiving end of that stick (not on a plane, but still), I'd ask you reconsider how easy it is for an adult to have power over kids.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#117

Post by greedo »

mseebach wrote: post #86
pcrh wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think weather forecasting is currently good enough for a farmer to plan which crops to plant based on rainfall predictions. If every farmer planted a diversity of crops to account for all likely weather scenarios, then the average productivity would drop, as most crops would turn out to be unsuitable for the weather that occurred.

It depends - surely, studying the weather (how much snow there is on the mountains in winter affects how much water there is in the rivers in the spring) can reduce, if not remove, the risk of crop failure. Perhaps you have the choice of a more expensive drought-resistant crop and a cheaper one that isn't. Breaking the feedback loop by subsidizing failed crops doesn't create any incentive to invest effort into making…

You're making the assumption that winter snowpack has a dramatic effect on farming success. Sure, it helps fill the aquifers when it melts, but farmers depend on rainfall (at least in the US) as much as they do on irrigation. Heat also makes it hard for crops to grow successfully, regardless of how much water they get through irrigation.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#118

Post by dlytle »

drgath wrote: post #103
lunarscape wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortuately I'm pretty sure they're all real reported stories. In one case the man asked to move away from his own children was Boris Johnson, the mayor of London[1], when he was an MP in 2006. Edit: There's more on wikipedia [2]. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3634055/Com... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_sex_discrimination_pol...

So, a handful of instances out of millions over the last 5 years. Got it.

All it takes is for one person getting burned to affect their entire social circle. Every person who's been shouted at for trying to help a kid has probably told everyone they know about the event; at that point, none of them are likely to help.

This is especially notable in the social media heavy environment we're in now. I personally know someone who got shouted at because he led a kid to customer service so their parent could be found; posted the event to Facebook, and now everyone he knows (who read the article) is going to be a little less likely to help.

There's a reason Good Samaritan laws had to be put in place; people have been prosecuted for attempting to help others in good faith, and that led to others not trying. Shitty situation, but that's how it goes.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#119

Post by kalleboo »

jhcoaps wrote: post #94
chimi wrote: post #33

This is a problem bigger than United -- which has a lot of problems. This is what you get when you subsidize bad companies that need to fail. United needs to fail so someone better can take over. The moral hazards are ruining the country. I saw it recently with farmers struggling from the drought. Compare this farmer: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7417774n who has acres full of hay that don't do well in the…

Your post is endemic of something I see a lot on HN. You know nothing about agriculture, but you see a minor set of stories and you think you're a fucking expert. You have no idea if the diversified strategy has a higher expected value, or if it's just a variance play based on heat, or if different weather conditions could've affected interplay in a different way. You have no idea what the crop insurances for differe…

> And that doesn't even get into the fact that if you travel via air around the globe, nearly all of the airlines are absolutely terrible, not just the subsidized ones in the US.

Where does this come from? I find that most airlines around the world are absolutely brilliant.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#120

Post by imgabe »

chimi wrote: post #33

This is a problem bigger than United -- which has a lot of problems. This is what you get when you subsidize bad companies that need to fail. United needs to fail so someone better can take over. The moral hazards are ruining the country. I saw it recently with farmers struggling from the drought. Compare this farmer: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7417774n who has acres full of hay that don't do well in the…

Your farming example is ludicrous. We need hay as much as we need sorghum. We can't have every farmer planting only one set of crops based how they expect the weather to be. First, it would absolutely crash the market for that crop when the harvest came in, and second there would be none of the other crops that are necessary.
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