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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#391

Post by sixothree »

eastbound wrote: post #324
ajross wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And she was given the choice to get separated or keep the child. Representing that as a "choice" is precisely the Orwellian part. I'm guessing you don't have kids.

You’re taking the rest of the world hostage with the child. The crime was that she was allowed here in the first place, whether by the people who made her believe it was possible, or by her breaking the laws as the act of entry in the country.

It is hard to distinguish a lack of empathy from pure evil.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#392

Post by _DeadFred_ »

morkalork wrote: post #288
scarface_74 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And while trying to meet those numbers, they are being specifically told not to do mass raids of farms and other business in red states that will hurt Trump voters

Also, businesses caught employing illegal immigrants seemingly don't face any punishment either. Migrants wouldn't enter the US illegally if they couldn't find employment, and they wouldn't find employment if businesses were harshly punished. As it is, everyone is incentivized to keep this cat and mouse game going.

THe FBI/ICE sure cam after a judge that helped an illegal immigrant. I'm sure the FBI/ICE is using the same zeal to go after employers who helped them.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#393

Post by tomrod »

jmull wrote: post #329
djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

You are detained and a guard brandishing a machete presents you with a choice: he’ll either cut off your right hand, or cut off your left. Being right handed, you choose your left, and he lops it off. Was it really your choice to have your left hand cut off?

Aye. BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement) is a framework to evaluate this with.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#394

Post by ridgeguy »

djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

There are more egregious cases, of course.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/25/us/politics/us-citizen-de...

A post elsewhere about the details said ICE found the two-year old was unable to 'describe her status in full, intelligible sentences', so deported, even though her father (not deported and not consenting to his child's expulsion) wanted her left with him.

From my experience with two-tear olds, I guess ICE was technically correct.

edit - typo

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#395

Post by perihelions »

nharada wrote: post #314

Feels like this conversation is full of people getting hung up on arguing the technicalities and exact phrasing of this situation. Is that really important to the broader conversation?

C-f "citizenship"—55 results

C-f "metastatic cancer"—1

There's a poor child that's being withheld access to their medication and to their oncologists, and the adults in the room—adults in uniforms, adults with guns, adults in suits and adults in black robes—all of these adults are doing their adult things with their adult words, and the sum total of all that is the child still is without their cancer medicine.

What good can we be, if *this* result is the sum total of our good intentions?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#396

Post by selimthegrim »

tomrod wrote: post #389
exe34 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really "deported" without a court ruling? I thought it was human trafficking?

That must be the common way to use these terms, that's how I understand it too.

Rendered

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#397

Post by nickff »

ridgeguy wrote: post #378
generalizations wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either the technicalities matter, or our legal system runs on vibes. I think it is important.

Our legal system has always depended on vibes to mitigate technically correct unjust or catastrophic outcomes. It's broadly labelled "prosecutorial discretion", and operates at every level of the justice system. IMHO, it's essential.

Prosecutorial discretion hasn’t meant much to me since the Bond got prosecuted for violating a chemical weapons treaty, and Yates got prosecuted for fish-shredding.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_v._United_States_(2014)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yates_v._United_States_(2015...

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#399

Post by wat10000 »

gpm wrote: post #141
djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

In at least one of the cases here: The father explicitly did not want the child deported with the mother, had informed ICE of that, and initiated legal proceedings to that effect [1]. The mother and US citizen child were held largely incommunicado. They were not given access to a lawyer, and communication with the father was monitored, and upon the father attempting to give them the phone number for an attorney the p…

Note that it's advised for a single parent traveling internationally with their children to carry an letter from the other parent granting permission, because it may otherwise be interpreted as an attempt at international kidnapping and you may be prevented from traveling. The US government itself says this: https://www.usa.gov/travel-documents-children

Yet here they are deliberately moving a child internationally against the express wishes of at least one of the parents.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#400

Post by 0x5f3759df-i »

AustinDev wrote: post #344
beloch wrote: post #291

Let's do a time warp. It's 2018. Children are being separated from their parents and kept in cages[1]. It's really important to notice that the pictures in this article are not from reporters, leaks or anything of the sort. They were released by Customs and Border Protection and, no doubt, make things look better than they were. What has changed since Trump's first term? Yes, there is now a stronger sensitivity to se…

Let's do another time warp. It's 2000, Bill Clinton is about to wrap up his second term and has deported more people in that term than any president ever at nearly 7,000,000 deportations. Trump barely had 2,000,000 deportations in his first term. Trump's first term was the lowest level of deportations for any administration since Carter. Obama, Reagan, Both Bushes, Clinton and Biden all deported more people every ter…

“We’re incompetent and can’t achieve our goals by following the same laws and due process previous administrations used so we’re just going to perform as many random acts of evil and right violations to the people we can grab and hope that makes up the difference “
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