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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#331

Post by UmGuys »

potato3732842 wrote: post #10
clusterfook wrote: post #2

> But for interesting HN discussion... anyone got any juice on why this is happening. Is there orders going down the chain of command from the president to do this sort of thing. Was this behaviour always there but less reported before? Are they more emboldened by the current environment?

Because it's always been happening. If they didn't already have this sort of abuse practiced they wouldn't be so good at it. The ACLU used to write basically the same exact pieces about the DEA Maybe it's 10% or 20% more prevalent or worse, I can't say from my vantage point, but it's a difference of degree, not a categorical one. You read these stories and they read exactly like all the other stories of how all sorts…

It has not. We have never previously sent immigrants to foreign concentration camps. There were internment camps which were bad enough during the war, but we're now kidnapping people, sending them to El Salvador, and locking them up for life.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#332

Post by AustinDev »

pessimizer wrote: post #188
rsfern wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I don’t understand is how this is even a choice the parents have the legal right to make, assuming their US citizen children do not have passports (I don’t know if the answer to that is publicly known). Can a child legally be taken out of the country without a passport and some kind of verifications?

I think the US government seizing the birthright citizen children of undocumented immigrant parents is an extreme position.

What happens is a single parent is sent to prison? The state takes care of the children.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#333

Post by __turbobrew__ »

FireBeyond wrote: post #242
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like in this case, what do you propose as an alternative with a precedent that you think could be agreeable to most people? I like how nobody has actually answered this question yet, and have only harped on your birthright comment. The parents are in the US illegally, ICE deports people who are in the US illegally. Presumably the parents didn’t want to leave their USC kids behind so they brought them. I guess possi…

> The parents are in the US illegally No, the father is not. And when trying to get the mother legal help for her situation was cut off from her. Same when the court tried to get information, ICE ignored it, got her on a plane and then shortly after said “sorry, too late”.

The question then is the mother the legal guardian of the kids and was she given a choice to hand off the kids to someone else? If the mother was the legal guardian and she decided to take the USC kids with her, that is her right.

I think the details will matter here, it does seem like ICE skrewed the pooch here in not giving the family recourse to get the kids out of the detainee facility. If the USC kids were involuntarily detained that is a problem (despite it may be legal to do that according to US federal law).

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#334

Post by vlovich123 »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #320
whimsicalism wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is genuinely an extremely difficult challenge to manage illegal crossings if every individual must be processed through the full U.S. legal system which has massive resourcing and backlog problems (3m+ cases). Voters across the political spectrum have made it unmistakably clear — in poll after poll — that they are deeply dissatisfied with the current rate of illegal and asylum-seeking entries. Is there a morally p…

Congress could increase funding for the courts enough so that they could do their job. But that would go against the Republican quest for smaller government and lower taxes.

This quest is a fig leaf. The expansion of the government has proceeded equally under both presidents. The republicans just choose to spend the budget on other things and are less willing to raise taxes to fund things. The current tariffs are an interesting PR workaround.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#335

Post by Fraterkes »

bko wrote: post #154
anikan_vader wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due Process is being denied to US citizens, who are being removed from the country without the opportunity for them or their parents to consult an attorney.

From Claude > According to a Migration Policy Institute report, the deportation system dramatically changed over the past 19 years - moving from a judicial system prior to 1996 where most people facing deportation had immigration court hearings, to a system during Obama's administration where 75 percent of people removed did not see a judge before being deported. You have to understand that most what you read about o…

This comment is irrelevant unless you literally believe the person you are responding to is Barack Obama. Maybe ask an ai to write the whole comment for you next time!

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#336

Post by generalizations »

ivape wrote: post #253
generalizations wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American right-wing reeks of elitism Common notion, but based in ignorance. I've found that the left wing is more idealistic, but in the sense that they have chosen not to learn from history and rely on immediate emotional values. The right wing sees second order effects and acts on them. Thus, you get the left calling the right heartless/immoral/racist, and the right calling the left idiots.

[flagged]

> wonderful integrated members of our society

You've clearly only paid attention to ragebait. Because "integrated members of our society" is exactly what the right wing is interested in. But this is not what happened in recent years. The entire reason for the deportations is because they are not becoming "integrated members of our society" - it instead became "all crime-like" in places it wasn't before, and the correlation with the alien imports is just too obvious. It happened too fast and too much, and now the correction is just as hard.

"They are simply sick" and you're...... proving my point.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#337

Post by kjksf »

lokar wrote: post #256
koolba wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being eventually forced to decide whether to leave your child behind or take them with you out of the USA is a direct consequence of the choice to illegally enter the country. Are you suggesting we never deport parents under any circumstance? Having a citizen child is not some get-out-deportation-free card.

Entering the US without permission is a civil offense, not a crime in the way most people think of them.

Is it, though?

> Entering the United States illegally is not classified as a civil offense; it is a criminal offense. Under U.S. law, specifically under Title 8 of the U.S. Code, unauthorized entry into the country is considered a misdemeanor. The specific statute is 8 U.S.C. § 1325

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#338

Post by tomrod »

vlovich123 wrote: post #325
Zak wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In noncriminal matters such as deportations, there's no right to counsel at public expense. The broader rights to due process of law and habeas corpus have generally been held by the courts to apply to immigration detention and deportation, and people are certainly free to hire counsel at their own expense in such proceedings. It gets tricky when a deportation is completed before a court can hear the case. Attempting…

> In noncriminal matters It’s interesting how the administration always talks about these people being here illegally and that they’re all criminals but then leverages the non-criminal aspect of the proceedings to their advantage.

I agree with the substance of your point. I'd argue that it is less "interesting" and quite horrifying to be on the receiving end!

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#339

Post by kentm »

ohgr wrote: post #289
sitkack wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too have noticed the same language coming out of folks here, folks that have had accounts for over 10 or 15 years. They were always here, but now they emboldened and they are doing their best to make sure that overton window stays very very open on the right.

I had a friend until recently. Really nice guy. Always looking out for people. Never said a bad word. In the last couple of years he turned into a nasty piece of work jumping on every politicised story out there and treating it as gospel. He alienated everyone around him. It turns out that some people don't have a mind of their own and are waiting for orders. Here is no exception. Look at the foaming at the mouth pra…

I’ve been in tech for about 2 decades now, and the general culture has always been to disregard ethics and social impact. How many times have we heard “We’re just building tools. Tools are apolitical and ethically neutral, it’s how you use them that matters!” It turns out that is actually not the case.

Plus the insistence that we can cordon off an area of life and designate it non political is incredibly common but also pretty naive (and dare I say privileged).

That is to say, we in the tech industry often encourage this sort of moral bankruptcy and like to pretend we’re above it all.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#340

Post by tomrod »

oblio wrote: post #268
koolba wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being eventually forced to decide whether to leave your child behind or take them with you out of the USA is a direct consequence of the choice to illegally enter the country. Are you suggesting we never deport parents under any circumstance? Having a citizen child is not some get-out-deportation-free card.

Americans are extremely cruel. The real solution to this is to end jus solis. Separating children from parents is incredibly cruel, inhumane, even.

> The real solution to this is to end jus solis.

No, that's a step down a terrible return to pre-Civil War policy. We should be actively fighting against enslavement and for due process, not throwing our hands up and saying "well, guess we can't [bring them back from El Salvador, have a sane policy with respect to families, have people's rights to citizenship and legal residence respected]".

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