Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

aclu.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 908 posts

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#141

Post by gpm »

djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

In at least one of the cases here:

The father explicitly did not want the child deported with the mother, had informed ICE of that, and initiated legal proceedings to that effect [1].

The mother and US citizen child were held largely incommunicado. They were not given access to a lawyer, and communication with the father was monitored, and upon the father attempting to give them the phone number for an attorney the phone was taken from the mother. Then promptly put on a flight out of the country

When a judge attempted to contact the mother, while the mother and child were still in US custody: The US did not respond for an hour presumably so that it could remove the mother and child from US custody prior to responding.

> The Government contends that this is all okay because the mother wishes that the child be deported with her. But the Court doesn’t know that. [2]

And that's a quote from the Trump appointed very Trump leaning [3] judge.

All actual evidence we have here is that the child was intentionally deported (expelled?) against the parents wishes. Certainly against one of the parents wishes.

[1] https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.lawd.21...

[2] https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.lawd.21...

[3] See prior rulings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_A._Doughty#Notable_rulin...

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#142

Post by fnordpiglet »

sfasdfasd wrote: post #118
miltonlost wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is less accurate. It erases the US citizenship of the children by being born here with the 14th Amendment, and subtly implies that they AREN'T citizens and are just "U.S.-Born" as if the 14th Amendment didn't apply (like Trump wants).

"U.S Born" == "U.S Citizenship" would be the default assumption of any rational, thinking person. You can add more words to say the same thing but it only ends up being annoying.

This has literally been declared not the case by the president, and being contested in court, and held as true by a significant percentage of the population. It’s not semantics - it’s become a point of national disagreement.

It also leaves out all mention of process. The issue here isn’t that the parents are choosing to bring their citizen children with them but that they’re being denied all ability to leave their citizen children with their citizen parent. This is the crux of the actual issue here.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#143

Post by tomrod »

andsoitis wrote: post #84

While the 3 minors are US citizens, their parents are not and the parents can be deported because they are in the country illegally. That means you have the following options: a) deport nobody, i.e. you don't apply the law b) deport just the parents. What do you do with the minor children? Separating them from their parents (different countries) would be cruel. c) deport the entire family, including the US minors. Si…

d) Follow due process and allow the immigration judge to determine

e) Amnesty if living here for awhile and not causing a ruckus.[0] US is huge, it needs more people not less.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control...

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#144

Post by pixelatedindex »

enlightenedfool wrote: post #125
llm_nerd wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bondi -- an outrageously partisan hack who is destroying the DOJ -- reached peak irony when she stated that "no one is above the law" in talking about that case. Donald Trump and his administration are on an absolute crime spree[1]. Insider trading, launching shit-coins and engaging in self-dealing, completely disregarding both the constitution and the courts, up to and including the Supreme Court. The US is currentl…

[flagged]

From the way things are going now, the previous administration had a perfectly able president.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#145

Post by __turbobrew__ »

somenameforme wrote: post #30
clusterfook wrote: post #2

> But for interesting HN discussion... anyone got any juice on why this is happening. Is there orders going down the chain of command from the president to do this sort of thing. Was this behaviour always there but less reported before? Are they more emboldened by the current environment?

Every day across the world thousands of people are removed from countries around the world for violating immigration laws. Except in cases of where it coincided with criminality, it's always going to be very ugly, because it means somebody had built up a life for themselves somewhere and that is now ended due to them having been born in a different place and then overstayed their permission, or never received such, t…

> Like in this case, what do you propose as an alternative with a precedent that you think could be agreeable to most people?

I like how nobody has actually answered this question yet, and have only harped on your birthright comment.

The parents are in the US illegally, ICE deports people who are in the US illegally. Presumably the parents didn’t want to leave their USC kids behind so they brought them.

I guess possible options are

1. Allow illegal parents to designate USC kids a guardian who has legal US immigration status

2. Dont deport illegal immigrants who have USC kids (basically making birthright transitive to parents)

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#146

Post by tomrod »

miltonlost wrote: post #90
andsoitis wrote: post #84

While the 3 minors are US citizens, their parents are not and the parents can be deported because they are in the country illegally. That means you have the following options: a) deport nobody, i.e. you don't apply the law b) deport just the parents. What do you do with the minor children? Separating them from their parents (different countries) would be cruel. c) deport the entire family, including the US minors. Si…

DEPORTING US CITIZENS is the logical choice? Logical to deport children to someplace they have never been and they don't have citizenship to? It's still illogical, evil, unconstitutional, and cruel.

Its post hoc logical, if you want to justify the actions of an autocratic regime and don't have an ethical foot to stand on.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#147

Post by gpm »

afavour wrote: post #76
djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

Difficult to describe them as choosing to do anything: > ICE held the families incommunicado, refusing or failing to respond to multiple attempts by attorneys and family members to contact them. In one instance, a mother was granted less than one minute on the phone before the call was abruptly terminated when her spouse tried to provide legal counsel’s phone number. What would they do, leave their child in an ICE fa…

They would transfer custody to an individual who was allowed to remain in the US. This had been organized in the case of at least one of the US citizens deported (expelled?) here.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#148

Post by samlinnfer »

otde wrote: post #110
andsoitis wrote: post #84

While the 3 minors are US citizens, their parents are not and the parents can be deported because they are in the country illegally. That means you have the following options: a) deport nobody, i.e. you don't apply the law b) deport just the parents. What do you do with the minor children? Separating them from their parents (different countries) would be cruel. c) deport the entire family, including the US minors. Si…

Why is a) bad? Have you considered d) pass a different law? Why are you pretending the law is some immutable thing that we always need to follow, regardless of the situations an unjust law might place someone in if followed?

Instead of processing immigration applications fairly for everyone, we just should let people who break the rules get away with it?

Having deportation as an actual threat, reduces the amount of people who attempt to break the rules since they know there are consequences.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#149

Post by viraptor »

ty6853 wrote: post #114
viraptor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, let's try some empathy and humane thinking: you don't throw out either of them in that case.

So basically create a huge incentive to drag very sick kids through the darien gap and cartel land with no real plan for foid and housing of their kids? If i did 1% of that someone would call cps to take my kids.

The incentive already exists. But this case is about US citizen kids, not kids brought in. So concentrating on that:

> The families, who had lived in the United States for years and had deep ties to their communities

> Both families have possible immigration relief

The current actions did not make sense and didn't make anything better or solve any problems.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#150

Post by krosaen »

padjo wrote: post #97
krosaen wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what chatgpt said is incorrect, I would love to know. Are you not interested in the legal details of these cases so we know what can be fought under current law and not? The cruelty of the actions should be judged harshly, and in the longer run we need to reform immigration law so they are not possible, but knowing what can currently be fought legally matters to me.

Aside from whether it is correct in this particular case or not, it’s just bizarre to me that you would post what AI told you. It’s like you’re a booster for dead internet theory. So in addition to half the internet consisting of AIs arguing with each other, we now have to deal with people telling us what AI said.

> Aside from whether it is correct

If it's mind boggling to you I would ask chatgpt, it's mind boggling to me that you don't care whether it is correct...

But if you generally think chatGPT produces garbage, I guess that makes sense. I disagree, to me it's a good initial query, replacing google. As with google before, it is not authoritative (e.g AI may hallucinate, or google may land you on some SEO bs page), but I don't tend to dismiss its use outright.

Post reply on HN