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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#161

Post by elicksaur »

gpm wrote: post #147
afavour wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difficult to describe them as choosing to do anything: > ICE held the families incommunicado, refusing or failing to respond to multiple attempts by attorneys and family members to contact them. In one instance, a mother was granted less than one minute on the phone before the call was abruptly terminated when her spouse tried to provide legal counsel’s phone number. What would they do, leave their child in an ICE fa…

They would transfer custody to an individual who was allowed to remain in the US. This had been organized in the case of at least one of the US citizens deported (expelled?) here.

[flagged]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#162

Post by V-eHGsd_ »

kadushka wrote: post #106
sswatson wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrase "solely one of birthright" suggests the diminishment of the citizenship of certain people. That is not how citizenship works: no one is less of a citizen than anyone else. The most objectionable part here — by far — is not the deportation of the parents, but the deportation of citizens and the lack of due process. The alternative being proposed is that if ICE is going to deport the parents of US citizen ch…

no one is less of a citizen than anyone else This is not true - a citizen by birth can become the president, a naturalized citizen cannot.

While true, I believe op was talking about with respect to the protections afforded by the law.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#163

Post by Volundr »

gpm wrote: post #147
afavour wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difficult to describe them as choosing to do anything: > ICE held the families incommunicado, refusing or failing to respond to multiple attempts by attorneys and family members to contact them. In one instance, a mother was granted less than one minute on the phone before the call was abruptly terminated when her spouse tried to provide legal counsel’s phone number. What would they do, leave their child in an ICE fa…

They would transfer custody to an individual who was allowed to remain in the US. This had been organized in the case of at least one of the US citizens deported (expelled?) here.

How do you arrange this when not allowed to speak with anyone?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#164

Post by koolba »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #142
sfasdfasd wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"U.S Born" == "U.S Citizenship" would be the default assumption of any rational, thinking person. You can add more words to say the same thing but it only ends up being annoying.

This has literally been declared not the case by the president, and being contested in court, and held as true by a significant percentage of the population. It’s not semantics - it’s become a point of national disagreement. It also leaves out all mention of process. The issue here isn’t that the parents are choosing to bring their citizen children with them but that they’re being denied all ability to leave their ci…

It’s not the case already for foreign diplomats on US soil. If the Russian ambassador’s wife gives birth at a US hospital while visiting the embassy, the child does not get citizenship.

Mark my words, Trump is going to win that court case. It’s not far fetched at all to interpret “* and subject to the jurisdiction thereof*” to mean people that have legally entered the country.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#165

Post by jfengel »

sanderjd wrote: post #63
pclmulqdq wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those statuses are called "visas" and they have been around for a while. Obama's innovation was giving a weird form of status ("we know you broke the law and we aren't enforcing it") to people who broke the law when crossing the border. Most people with a non-illegal and non-citizen status are supposed to apply for that status before crossing the border.

This gets at another portion of the answer to the "what's your alternative suggestion?" question: I'd suggest Congress pass laws, rather than presidents making stuff up, illegally. This is clearly not a partisan point! Every president in my voting lifetime - Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden - has made up immigration law while Congress sat on its thumbs.

It's not quite that Congress has sat on its thumbs. Individual Congressmen have been (figuratively) screaming at each other. Committees are at each other's throats trying to get some sort of legislation to the table. Nobody can stand the possibility of giving the other side what they want -- at the insistence of their constituents.

The net result, of course, is identical to if they had all stayed home.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#166

Post by lawn »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #156
kadushka wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no one is less of a citizen than anyone else This is not true - a citizen by birth can become the president, a naturalized citizen cannot.

that's true, so basically they deported somebody that one day could become President!

They deported someone with (supposedly) more rights than Elon Musk.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#167

Post by Swizec »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #145
somenameforme wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every day across the world thousands of people are removed from countries around the world for violating immigration laws. Except in cases of where it coincided with criminality, it's always going to be very ugly, because it means somebody had built up a life for themselves somewhere and that is now ended due to them having been born in a different place and then overstayed their permission, or never received such, t…

> Like in this case, what do you propose as an alternative with a precedent that you think could be agreeable to most people? I like how nobody has actually answered this question yet, and have only harped on your birthright comment. The parents are in the US illegally, ICE deports people who are in the US illegally. Presumably the parents didn’t want to leave their USC kids behind so they brought them. I guess possi…

> 2. Dont deport illegal immigrants who have USC kids (basically making birthright transitive to parents)

Birthright is somewhat transitive. US citizens can sponsor family members for a green card once they’re 18.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#168

Post by ModernMech »

ajross wrote: post #107
djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

> From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. That seems deliberately Orwellian. What's the "not deported" scenario you're imagining? Literally abandoning your child in a jail somewhere?! It's not like these folks are in hotels, or have access to phones or family. I mean, yi…

Not ironically, yes, that's where we are. I remember when we would say such things about a school of children being gunned down. "Really?? That's where we are now as a society? How did we let this happen?"

We let it happen by not saying "enough" when the last thing happened. If a school of kids gets gunned down and a society lets that slide, that society becomes one more tolerant of violence against children. We said we were powerless to stop that, so here we are now, bringing violence against children as a matter of federal policy.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#169

Post by rsfern »

evv555 wrote: post #151
nessbot wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got a source for that? I've hear otherwise about some of the parent's decisions for their US citizen children.

You got a source for that?

The habeas petition for VMS (the two year old) indicates the father (who was not detained at the time of the filing) transferred provisional custody rights to a US citizen relative, and that communications with the mother (who was removed along with their US citizen child) were cut off when he tried to share their lawyers contact info

PDF: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.lawd.21...

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#170

Post by gpm »

Volundr wrote: post #163
gpm wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would transfer custody to an individual who was allowed to remain in the US. This had been organized in the case of at least one of the US citizens deported (expelled?) here.

How do you arrange this when not allowed to speak with anyone?

The mother and child were in custody, the father was not, and was prompt in acquiring legal counsel, arranging this, and suing, leading to exceptionally clear circumstances in this case. This is the docket for the lawsuit: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69940863/v-m-l-v-harper...

The mother was also technically able to speak with the father, though monitored, for less than a minute, and they were interrupted when the father attempted to give a number for the attorney to the mother.

To be clear, I'm not defending any of ICEs actions here, I'm saying that they kidnapped this child who had arrangements made to remain in the US despite ICEs best (also almost certainly illegal) attempts to prevent that from happening.

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