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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#81

Post by miltonlost »

djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

Oh wow, what a choice! Imagine, having a gun to your head and saying "but i had a choice!" In no way can you say that these people, given no legal advocates, chose to bring their children, or at least freely chose.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#82

Post by giraffe_lady »

afpx wrote: post #47
surgical_fire wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting thing about this parallel, is that the "final solution" in Germany was final because it was not the original solution. Originally they wanted to, well, deport the undesirables to some far off country, initially to Madagascar if memory serves. Managing mass incarceration and deportation is a difficult task however, and these people (both then and now) are not exactly competent at anything beyond bravad…

Unfortunately, if this follows history, the safest thing to do is to not do anything, blend in, and wait for external help. Afaik, only a handful of Germans who resisted survived. But, I don’t see any help for us coming anytime soon.

Then honor demands that we die. I think there are still other outcomes possible but if that's how it is that's how it is.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#83

Post by padjo »

krosaen wrote: post #74
padjo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda mind boggling to me that you would ask chatgpt and then post the answer as if that adds something to the discussion.

I think it's important to know exactly what happens in these cases to not be vulnerable to counterarguments. It seems in addition to the cruelty of selectively enforcing laws, it is clearly illegal - so we can fight these actions in court.

AI is not a reliable source for legal matters. There are so many examples of it making up precedent it’s basically a meme at this point. Posting its response is not helpful. I’d have thought hacker news contributors would understand that.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#84

Post by andsoitis »

While the 3 minors are US citizens, their parents are not and the parents can be deported because they are in the country illegally.

That means you have the following options:

a) deport nobody, i.e. you don't apply the law

b) deport just the parents. What do you do with the minor children? Separating them from their parents (different countries) would be cruel.

c) deport the entire family, including the US minors. Since they have US citizenship, they can always return to the US.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#85

Post by miltonlost »

clusterfook wrote: post #2

> But for interesting HN discussion... anyone got any juice on why this is happening. Is there orders going down the chain of command from the president to do this sort of thing. Was this behaviour always there but less reported before? Are they more emboldened by the current environment?

> anyone got any juice on why this is happening.

Because Trump is an abject racist with a white nationalist policy who ran on deporting what he finds to be undesirable. It's not hard.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#86

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #55
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because it's always been happening. I don't like this kind of response because it's basically kind of an assumption, and you don't really give any evidence for it. On one hand, sure, abuses by people in positions of power have always happened, so if you're just making a general argument that enforcement authorities abuse power, I mean yeah, human nature. But this article is making some specific points: 1. Those who…

No, this kind of deportation and treatment of prisoners/detainees has been happening forever. This exact behavior has been happening forever, not just a general idea of malfeasance. The current attention on it smacks of politics in a way that is also very inhuman. Remember the "kids in cages" saga?

> No, this kind of deportation and treatment of prisoners/detainees has been happening forever.

Another assertion without any justification or data.

> Remember the "kids in cages" saga?

Yes, of course, and that's the point. There was huge outcry then, and that cruel policy was implemented by the same person responsible for this policy. It doesn't make sense to say "this has been happening forever" and then bring up an example from 2017-2020. We are all well aware of Trump's view on immigration and the rule of law. The whole point is that Trump's policies are a huge aberration from what any other administration, Republican or Democrat, has put forth in the past 50 years.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#87

Post by miltonlost »

heromal wrote: post #61
rdtsc wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US citizens. Children no less. But their parents aren’t. Parents can be deported. So let’s imagine they did that. We’d have an article how cruel they stole / kidnapped a child from their parents. Would that be better? Having a child doesn’t automatically provide a legal cover for staying and not getting deported. Maybe that’s a risk the parents didn’t know about?

What's the point in arguing about what-ifs? The children were deported. In real life. There's no need for hypothetical scenarios, focus on the actual point of the article and thread.

> What's the point in arguing about what-ifs? The children were deported.

Anyone arguing in what-ifs agrees with the deportation but can't be that blatantly racist on here. Ignoring this specific case allows them to muddy the waters. Anyone playing Devil's Advocate consistently are usually part of the devil's party.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#88

Post by krosaen »

padjo wrote: post #83
krosaen wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's important to know exactly what happens in these cases to not be vulnerable to counterarguments. It seems in addition to the cruelty of selectively enforcing laws, it is clearly illegal - so we can fight these actions in court.

AI is not a reliable source for legal matters. There are so many examples of it making up precedent it’s basically a meme at this point. Posting its response is not helpful. I’d have thought hacker news contributors would understand that.

If what chatgpt said is incorrect, I would love to know. Are you not interested in the legal details of these cases so we know what can be fought under current law and not? The cruelty of the actions should be judged harshly, and in the longer run we need to reform immigration law so they are not possible, but knowing what can currently be fought legally matters to me.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#89

Post by AnimalMuppet »

UncleMeat wrote: post #72
xedrac wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why then are people with legal visas being detained or having their visas revoked if it is just those who "flooded here illegally" under threat? Clinton said that many Trump voters were deplorables. Trump said that many immigrants are not human . Now I know which sounds more like the Nazis to me.

> Trump said that many immigrants are not human.

I am very much not a Trump fan, but I need to see a source for that claim.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#90

Post by miltonlost »

andsoitis wrote: post #84

While the 3 minors are US citizens, their parents are not and the parents can be deported because they are in the country illegally. That means you have the following options: a) deport nobody, i.e. you don't apply the law b) deport just the parents. What do you do with the minor children? Separating them from their parents (different countries) would be cruel. c) deport the entire family, including the US minors. Si…

DEPORTING US CITIZENS is the logical choice? Logical to deport children to someplace they have never been and they don't have citizenship to? It's still illogical, evil, unconstitutional, and cruel.
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