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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#71

Post by sanderjd »

bryant wrote: post #18
zarzavat wrote: post #8

"Deports" is wrong word for removing a citizen. "Expels" would be more appropriate.

> "Deports" is wrong word for removing a citizen. "Expels" would be more appropriate. While this is true, the use of what's technically the wrong word highlights that the wrong action is being applied. The action is a deportation. The targets are people who must/shall not ever be deported. Therefore the headline immediately gets attention for concisely describing a violation.

No, deporting means sending someone back to their country of origin. You can't "deport" someone from their country of origin to some other country.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#72

Post by UncleMeat »

xedrac wrote: post #24
surgical_fire wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting thing about this parallel, is that the "final solution" in Germany was final because it was not the original solution. Originally they wanted to, well, deport the undesirables to some far off country, initially to Madagascar if memory serves. Managing mass incarceration and deportation is a difficult task however, and these people (both then and now) are not exactly competent at anything beyond bravad…

[flagged]

Why then are people with legal visas being detained or having their visas revoked if it is just those who "flooded here illegally" under threat?

Clinton said that many Trump voters were deplorables. Trump said that many immigrants are not human. Now I know which sounds more like the Nazis to me.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#73

Post by sanderjd »

OutOfHere wrote: post #27
bryant wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Deports" is wrong word for removing a citizen. "Expels" would be more appropriate. While this is true, the use of what's technically the wrong word highlights that the wrong action is being applied. The action is a deportation. The targets are people who must/shall not ever be deported. Therefore the headline immediately gets attention for concisely describing a violation.

I think what happened here is that the parents were here illegally. The children just had to accompany the parents. I find it quite possible that the children will be allowed back in once they no longer have to depend on their parents.

What does this "had to" mean? Was it "forced to" or was it "chose to"? Seems like the former.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#74

Post by krosaen »

padjo wrote: post #69
krosaen wrote: post #33

[flagged]

Kinda mind boggling to me that you would ask chatgpt and then post the answer as if that adds something to the discussion.

I think it's important to know exactly what happens in these cases to not be vulnerable to counterarguments. It seems in addition to the cruelty of selectively enforcing laws, it is clearly illegal - so we can fight these actions in court.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#75

Post by apical_dendrite »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #48
apical_dendrite wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any sort of "pleasant" outcome would effectively require turning birthright citizenship into defacto citizenship for the parents as well, at least if they can stay illegally for long enough. No, there are lots of immigration statuses between "illegal" and "citizen". DAPA, which was the Obama administration's policy, gave parents of US citizens a status where they could get temporary renewable work permits and exemp…

Most of those statuses are called "visas" and they have been around for a while. Obama's innovation was giving a weird form of status ("we know you broke the law and we aren't enforcing it") to people who broke the law when crossing the border. Most people with a non-illegal and non-citizen status are supposed to apply for that status before crossing the border.

Sure, the point is that the poster I was responding to said that the only way to avoid putting US citizen minor children in a position where they have to either leave the country, or stay in the country without their parents, is to effectively grant citizenship to the parents. My point is that that's a false choice, it would be possible to grant the parents a temporary, conditional status that's based on having minor US-citizen children. It's not an ideal solution, but it protects the constitutional rights of US-citizen minor children without granting citizenship to the parents.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#76

Post by afavour »

djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

Difficult to describe them as choosing to do anything:

> ICE held the families incommunicado, refusing or failing to respond to multiple attempts by attorneys and family members to contact them. In one instance, a mother was granted less than one minute on the phone before the call was abruptly terminated when her spouse tried to provide legal counsel’s phone number.

What would they do, leave their child in an ICE facility and hope that somehow word gets back to family to go get them?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#77

Post by acdha »

macinjosh wrote: post #58
OutOfHere wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what happened here is that the parents were here illegally. The children just had to accompany the parents. I find it quite possible that the children will be allowed back in once they no longer have to depend on their parents.

You are correct. People watch too much TV and think this is out of the ordinary. If the children were kept here we'd be weeping about kids being separated from their parents.

This just dishonest. In the past, the rule of law applied. The law is not perfect or kind, but there was a process where people could defend themselves and egregious violations of U.S. law like this would be avoided. It wouldn’t be the child being “separated from their parents”, it would be the family choosing to go together OR the family choosing to have their child live with relatives.

The case we heard about yesterday illustrates the difference. A judge Trump appointed raised the alarm not just because due process is being violated but because a two year old’s father was pleading with the court to let his daughter live with him. Prior to this administration, nobody would have blinked an eye at a U.S. citizen switching custody to a U.S. citizen parent, and it’d save the government a lot of money to let that happen.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/04/25/us-citizen-deportat...

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#78

Post by neilk »

gyudin wrote: post #50
krosaen wrote: post #33

[flagged]

Usually at least one of parents is allowed to legally stay to take care of a kid.

I am not a lawyer, but as far as I know this is completely wrong.

There is a conspiracy theory that “anchor babies” will help undocumented parents avoid deportation from the US.

As far as I can tell, the usual thing that happens when undocumented parents of a US citizen are deported is that they have to give the child to a citizen relative to raise, or they take the child with them.

It seems to be extremely rare, though “prosecutorial discretion” can allow for a parent to remain in the US. There is no guarantee; an undocumented parent can and is often deported later, sometimes for minor crimes. I couldn’t find any stats about how often this happens but immigration consultants stress to their clients that they can’t rely on it.

If the undocumented parents have been in the country for 10 years they can apply for relief for deportation but that is capped at 4,000 cases annually. If the child remains in the US until they become an adult, and can plausibly sponsor a relative, then they can also apply to reunify with their parent. The deported parent may have to spend a minimum of a decade outside the US.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#79

Post by shakna »

rdtsc wrote: post #41
codewench wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing as how this article is talking about the deportation of US citizens, I'm going to question what exactly you mean by "here illegally". Expanding the argument: I've just decided that you are illegally, and will thus be deported. As there is no due process, my word is law, have fun wherever you end up I literally do not care. Does that seem fair? And before arguing "well this wouldn't happen, I'm not here illegal…

> US citizens. Children no less. But their parents aren’t. Parents can be deported. So let’s imagine they did that. We’d have an article how cruel they stole / kidnapped a child from their parents. Would that be better? Having a child doesn’t automatically provide a legal cover for staying and not getting deported. Maybe that’s a risk the parents didn’t know about?

That sounds like something where due process is supposed to come into play. The best of a series of bad alternatives are worked out in a steady manner by a court system, rather than a hopped up racist at the border bragging about the president being in their corner.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#80

Post by stevenwoo »

k310 wrote: post #11

Why the deliberate atrocities? I read an article that starts with this proposition [1] > The real question, however, is not how America lost its way. We know the mechanics of it. It lost its way in large measure because Donald Trump, a Pied Piper of malice, led it astray, though one can’t lay all of that or even most of it on Trump. The American people, nearly half of those who voted, in their infinite wisdom empower…

When they separate undocumented children from their families in the first Trump term and did not bother to leave a paper trail so that these families could be reunited so it would take years if ever for these children to be returned to their parents, not one person in the entire chain of command was punished for it. When there are zero consequences for doing wrong, we should not be surprised the wrong doing continues. Same with Bush Jr using private servers to hide his administration's emails - now every GOP administration is going to use this tactic with whatever technology permits it like Signal is being used to bypass laws for record keeping today because no one holds them to account and no one will.
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