FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#401

Post by FireBeyond » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:08 PM UTC

kemayo wrote: post #16

> He accused Dugan of “intentionally misdirecting” federal agents who arrived at the courthouse to detain an immigrant who was set to appear before her in an unrelated proceeding. It sounds like the arrest isn't because of any official act of the judge, but rather over them either not telling the ICE agents where the person was or giving them the wrong information about their location. There are some pretty broad law…

> the ICE agents showed up in the middle of a court proceeding, and the judge said they'd need to get permission from the chief judge before they could interrupt proceedings. The judge then didn't stop the defendant from leaving once the proceeding was done.

I used to work as a paramedic. We’d frequently be called to the local tribal jail which had a poor reputation. People would play sick to get out of there for a few hours. If the jail staff thought they were faking and they were due for release in the next week or so, they’d “release” them while we were doing an assessment and tell them “you are getting the bill for this not us” (because in custody the jail is responsible for medical care). Patient would duly get in our ambulance and a few minutes down the road and “feel better”, and request to be let out.

The first time this happened my partner was confused. “We need to stop them” - no, we don’t, and legally can’t. “We need to tell the jail so they can come pick them back up” - no, the jail made the choice to release them, they are no longer in custody and free to go.

This caught on very quickly with inmates and for a while was happening a couple of times a day before the jail figured out the deal and stopped releasing people early.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#402

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:08 PM UTC

openasocket wrote: post #351

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they walked into the hearing, sat in the back, and didn't interrupt it. These proceedings are almost always public, and theoretically you or I could walk in and sit quietly without violating any rules. Without knowing more, they could have just been waiting patiently for the hearing to end, and they would have arrested him outside the courtroom after he had left. In that case, what the judge did does amount to wil…

That would really depend on what the judge did, though. If the judge said, “the guy you are looking for is with the chief judge” and it turns out he wasn’t with the chief judge, that sounds like obstruction. If the judge said, “the chief judge wants to talk to you”, and the chief judge really did want to talk to the ICE agents, is that obstruction? In that scenario, ICE could have just not gone to see the chief judge…

>That would really depend on what the judge did, though.

It would, of course. But we don't know what the judge did, and yet everyone here is interpreting the events in the least generous way possible. Next week, when there is another incident, they'll use their least generous interpretations of what happened here as fact to justify their least generous interpretations of that incident.

>If the judge said, “the guy you are looking for is with the chief judge” and it turns out he wasn’t with the chief judge,

Or, if he just said "you all need to leave, none can stay" with the intention of hurrying the proceeding along so that the immigrant could leave before they could possibly return, that too is willful obstruction.

>In that scenario, ICE could have just not gone to see the chief judge until a

The other comment says they were "asked to leave and talk to him for permission". Ask is courtroom code for "do this, or you'll be arrested for contempt and spend at least a few hours in a holding cell in the other part of the courthouse building". There was no "they could have just not gone".

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#403

Post by Miner49er » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:08 PM UTC

dionian wrote: post #382

Aeolun wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily to avoid his arrest, only the fact they went through a jury door is indicated for now.

It would be interesting to hear if there was another valid reason for this

There doesn't have to be, it's up to the prosecution to prove the reason was to aid him in avoiding arrest. The judge doesn't have to provide an alternate reason.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#404

Post by lurk2 » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:08 PM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #319

jawiggins wrote: post #291

The AP article [1] has the full complaint linked, the crux of the case seems to be around the judge allowing the defendant to leave through a back entrance ("jury door") when they were aware agents were waiting in the public hallway to make an arrest as they exited. " 29. Multiple witnesses have described their observations after Judge DUGAN returned to her courtroom after directing members of the arrest team to the…

I find it extremely doubtful that she told the agents he'd be leaving through a particular door or that she had any legal obligation to make sure the man exited in a particular way.

United States Code, Title 8, § 1324(a)(1)(A)(iii) (2023)

> (1)(A) Any person who

[…]

> (iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation;

[…]

> shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B).

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2023-title8/html/...

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#405

Post by bix6 » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:09 PM UTC

jawiggins wrote: post #291

The AP article [1] has the full complaint linked, the crux of the case seems to be around the judge allowing the defendant to leave through a back entrance ("jury door") when they were aware agents were waiting in the public hallway to make an arrest as they exited. " 29. Multiple witnesses have described their observations after Judge DUGAN returned to her courtroom after directing members of the arrest team to the…

From reading the affidavit it’s clear to me there is a lot of uncertainty and confusion around these situations. Clearly the judges are upset with ICE making arrests in the public spaces within the court hall while ICE views it as the perfect place since the defendant will be unarmed. This was an administrative warrant and IANAL but doesn’t that not require local cooperation e.g the judge is in her right to not help or comply with the warrant?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#406

Post by kstrauser » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:09 PM UTC

Part of the reason why I support "sanctuary cities" is that it's better for everyone if undocumented immigrants feel safe talking to the police. Imagine someone broke into my car and there was a witness who saw the whole thing. I want them to be OK telling the cops what happened. I want them to be OK reporting crimes in their neighborhood. I want them to be OK testifying about it in court. I want them to be OK calling 911.

Even if I put all human rights issues aside, I don't want anyone to be punished for talking to the police simply because of their immigration status, because their freedom to do so makes my own daily life safer.

Well, that goes double for courtrooms. If some guy's due to testify in a murder case, I don't want him skipping court because some quota-making jackass at ICE wants to arrest him because of a visa issue.

In this case, the person was actually in court to face misdemeanor charges (of which they haven't been convicted yet, i.e. they're still legally innocent). I want people to go to court to face trial instead of skipping out because they fear they'll be arrested and deported for unrelated reasons. I bet the judge has pretty strong opinions on that exact issue, too.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#407

Post by Hikikomori » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:09 PM UTC

gitfan86 wrote: post #380

fnordpiglet wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact the FBI participated in this arrest is chilling. ICE being a proto secret police seems to be perceived already. The FBI now? There’s question whether the ICE agents even had legal grounds to demand arrest regardless, whether they had a warrant, etc - and the facts established are pretty clearly not prosecutable. So this is pure intimidation, going after the judicial in what will likely be a flagrantly abusiv…

[flagged]

Did he also say he would deport people without a criminal record, that are here legally, and without due process?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#408

Post by esbranson » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:09 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #214

kemayo wrote: post #16

> He accused Dugan of “intentionally misdirecting” federal agents who arrived at the courthouse to detain an immigrant who was set to appear before her in an unrelated proceeding. It sounds like the arrest isn't because of any official act of the judge, but rather over them either not telling the ICE agents where the person was or giving them the wrong information about their location. There are some pretty broad law…

Under any occasion, it was inappropriate to arrest a judge like this. We’re honestly at the point where I’d be comfortable with armed militias defending state and local institutions from federal police. If only to force someone to think twice about something like this. (To be clear, I’m not happy we’re here. But we are.)

[flagged]

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#409

Post by fzeroracer » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:10 PM UTC

kansface wrote: post #389

whoknowsidont wrote: post #12

Democratic states really need to start disallowing federal agents to operate within their borders and band together. Activate their respective national guards and make it happen. Yes, that means defying federal law. Yes that means exactly the consequences you want to draw from those actions. There is no other option at this point. The law is dead in the U.S.

No, absolutely not. Trump would federalize the national guard as did Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson and charge the governors with treason. You advocate for de facto succession of the states - we settled that matter with blood last time. The next time will be far worse. The rule of law does not prohibit bad arrests nor can it. The rule of law provides the opportunity for remedy after the fact.

When the federal government is actively hostile towards the states then the only recourse is going to be secession.

> The rule of law does not prohibit bad arrests nor can it. The rule of law provides the opportunity for remedy after the fact.

In a world where you and I could be renditioned to a foreign country and thrown into slave labor by the government simply acting fast enough as to maneuver around the court then there is no rule of law and there is no remedy.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#410

Post by miltonlost » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:10 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #250

throwaway5752 wrote: post #31

Executive branch arrests of members of judiciary are not to be taken lightly. There are many ways to deal with these situations and this is extraordinarily far from normal. All you can do is diversify your US-based investments and get travel visas while you still can. If you are tempted to downvote, you could make a better point by finding comparable examples under any other modern president.

[flagged]

> Didn’t Biden famously try to impeach/arrest Trump for a variety of reasons? I

Oh my god, no, that never happened at all. This is a fever dream. How in the world and constitution Could Biden IMPEACH Trump when he wasn't a member of the House of Reps, which is the body that impeaches Presidents. Actually, Biden also couldn't arrest Trump, as federal arrests would be by the AG. Famously, Merrick Garland took forever to bring cahrges to Trump, and, unlike Trump did with his AGs, Biden never interfered.

Do you have any sources for this "famous" impeachment and arrests?

> I’m not sure if I’ve ever heard of so many attempts on the same president.

Because no other President tried to start a violent coup when he lost the election! That is a good reason to arrest someone, which is included in your vague "variety of reasons".