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FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

apnews.com

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Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#351

Post by openasocket »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #271
kemayo wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article has been updated with more context in recent minutes: > ICE agents arrived in the judge’s courtroom last Friday during a pre-trial hearing for Eduardo Flores Ruiz, a 30-year-old Mexican national who is facing misdemeanor battery charges in Wisconsin. > Dugan asked the agents to leave and speak to the circuit court’s chief judge, the Journal Sentinel reported. By the time they returned, Flores Ruiz had left. S…

Or they walked into the hearing, sat in the back, and didn't interrupt it. These proceedings are almost always public, and theoretically you or I could walk in and sit quietly without violating any rules. Without knowing more, they could have just been waiting patiently for the hearing to end, and they would have arrested him outside the courtroom after he had left. In that case, what the judge did does amount to wil…

That would really depend on what the judge did, though. If the judge said, “the guy you are looking for is with the chief judge” and it turns out he wasn’t with the chief judge, that sounds like obstruction. If the judge said, “the chief judge wants to talk to you”, and the chief judge really did want to talk to the ICE agents, is that obstruction? In that scenario, ICE could have just not gone to see the chief judge until after arresting the suspect, or just sent one of their agents to talk to the chief judge and leave the rest in the courtroom.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#352

Post by tmpz22 »

bradley13 wrote: post #316

[flagged]

If the facts come out that the charge is flimsy or legally unsound AND protocol and precedent was breached, such as it being very atypical to haul a nonviolent offender (the judge) from a courthouse, would you change your mind?

Will you follow up on the facts of this case or do you already know everything you need to know?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#353

Post by [deleted] »

ivape wrote: post #322
Spivak wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it turns autocratic then there's no discussion to be had. Judge will waterboarded in Gitmo and Trump is de-facto king. We are no longer a nation of laws, the USA is renamed to Trumpopolis and we all have to get government mandated orange spray tans. So assuming that doesn't happen, this is an action by a non-autocratic executive meant to have a chilling effect on low level judges who don't want to spend a few days…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#354

Post by prepend »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #256
csomar wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The question is if the judge should have held the man This is bananas. The judges (or anyone else for that matter) should not be able to hold this man (or any other man) without an arrest warrant.

ICE doesn't issue warrants, because they can't. Immingration matters aren't criminal, and ICE are not law enforcement, though they certainly love to cosplay as some sort of mix between law enforcement and military. That's why ICE has to "ask" law enforcement to hold on to someone who gets arrested on another matter, and why plenty of police departments tell them to go pound sand.

ICE does issue warrants [0].

Some immigration matters are criminal. There are specific immigration law enforcement officers that execute warrants.

Maybe what you mean is that ICE warrants grant different authorities than an arrest warrant (ie, can’t enter private property to execute).

[0] https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/resources/ice_warra... https://www.ilrc.org/resources/annotated-ice-administrative-...

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#355

Post by potato3732842 »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #300
potato3732842 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the unusual thing here is that they're using them against a reasonably politically-connected person who's not their main target. This is a pissing match between authorities. ICE has their panties in a knot that the judge didn't "respect muh authoriah" and do more than the bare leglal minimum for them (which resulted in the guy getting away). On the plus side, one hopes judge will have a pretty good record going forwa…

She was convicted for lying, not for the trading.

That was exactly what I meant by "the feds don't go away empty handed".

She didn't actually do the thing they went after her for so they found some checkbox to nab her on rather than admit defeat.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#356

Post by Miner49er »

jawiggins wrote: post #291

The AP article [1] has the full complaint linked, the crux of the case seems to be around the judge allowing the defendant to leave through a back entrance ("jury door") when they were aware agents were waiting in the public hallway to make an arrest as they exited. " 29. Multiple witnesses have described their observations after Judge DUGAN returned to her courtroom after directing members of the arrest team to the…

How in the world is this an arrestable offense. Escorting someone out of a room?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#357

Post by mjburgess »

ldoughty wrote: post #326
mjburgess wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It isnt clear ICE agents have any legal authority to demand a judge tell them anything. 2. It is highly likely this is an official act, since it would be taken on behalf of court, so the immigrant can give, eg. testimony in a case. A "private act" here would be the judge lying in order to prevent their deportation because they as a private person wanted to do so. It seems highly unlikely that this is the case.

According to the FBI complaint that was just made available: Judge Dugan escorted the subject through a "jurors door" to private hallways and exits instead of having the defendant leave via the main doors into the public hallway, where she visually confirmed the agents were waiting for him. I couldn't tell if the judge knew for certain that ICE was only permitted to detain the defendant in 'public spaces' or not. Reg…

If this is all true, it still requires the judge be under some legal order to facilitate the deportation -- unless they have a warrant of the relevant type, the judge is under no such obligation. With a standard (administrative) warrant, ICE have no authority to demand the arrest.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#358

Post by wat10000 »

dylan604 wrote: post #290
jandrese wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be surprised if the agents are required to stay together when doing deportation arrests because they don't know when an immigrant might revert to their demon form and incapacitate a lone officer.

while funny, there is a reason for federals coming in pairs so they can act as a witness for the other with things like lying to a federal officer. this doesn't sound like the plural just meant 2 here, so it really does come across as Keystone Cops level of falling over themselves to not leave behind someone to keep an eye on their subject.

I'd bet on malicious compliance so they can show that their good and honest work is being impeded by elitist judges.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#359

Post by EgregiousCube »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #321
pjc50 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> incredibly doubtful that they could be successfully prosecuted for this. But they can be successfully arrested. You can beat the rap but not the ride, etc. The US is not yet at the level of dysfunction where jurisdiction is settled with gunfire, but ICE seem to be determined to move that closer.

The fact the FBI participated in this arrest is chilling. ICE being a proto secret police seems to be perceived already. The FBI now? There’s question whether the ICE agents even had legal grounds to demand arrest regardless, whether they had a warrant, etc - and the facts established are pretty clearly not prosecutable. So this is pure intimidation, going after the judicial in what will likely be a flagrantly abusiv…

The accused is accused of violating federal law, so it's normal that a federal agency would make the arrest. FBI seems to make more sense than DEA or ATF, no?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#360

Post by pc86 »

pjc50 wrote: post #150
kemayo wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I updated my post with new information from the updated article, and in the context of that I think you're pretty much right. It sounds like the judge basically said "you need permission to arrest someone in the middle of my hearing, go get it" and then didn't change anything about the process of their hearing while that permission was being obtained. This was definitely not them being helpful , but I'm incredibly do…

> incredibly doubtful that they could be successfully prosecuted for this. But they can be successfully arrested. You can beat the rap but not the ride, etc. The US is not yet at the level of dysfunction where jurisdiction is settled with gunfire, but ICE seem to be determined to move that closer.

Can you explain how this action reasonably leads to gunfire?
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