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Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

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Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#241

Post by aleph_minus_one »

akdor1154 wrote: post #122
yoyohello13 wrote: post #7

Look, if you willingly have any piece of your stack relying on Microsoft you have to be ready for the rug pull. They WILL fuck you, it's guaranteed.

Lucky no-one is reliant on niche tools like NPM or GitHub, otherwise they'd be feeling mightily insecure right now.

> Lucky no-one is reliant on niche tools like NPM or GitHub, otherwise they'd be feeling mightily insecure right now.

I did completely move away from GitHub (which is by now named "ShitHub" in some circles) the moment that Microsoft enforced 2FA on my account.

Yes, perhaps 2FA is a good idea for many scenarios, but if some company forces it upon me, I won't have any tolerance to be willing to be their customer/user anymore.

See [1] for a different perspective on this topic.

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And yes, I agree with you that is a great idea for a next step to at least strongly reduce (or even cut) your dependence on NPM wherever possible.

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[1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/72512276/how-to-disable-...

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#242

Post by infecto »

mrpopo wrote: post #222
kyrra wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your analogies are wrong. There is a direct cost to Microsoft that these companies are pushing on them. Specifically around bandwidth. Microsoft does not need to provide access for downloading plugins from their servers to anyone else.

I am quite confident that the bandwidth cost is absolutely not a concern for Microsoft, and that the obvious goal is for them to capture the market. The "C/C++" extension github repository is 4MB. Probably the download size for the extension itself is a fraction of that, but I won't bother measuring. It was downloaded 400 times over the last minute (there is a live counter on the extension page [0]). [0] https://mark…

I am glad you have insider knowledge to be so confident. I would rather those costs go towards furthering VS Code than helping out Cursor. This comes from someone who uses Cursor and not the biggest fan of MSFT.

Pure speculation but I would see the more logical argument being Cursor is a for pay product, why should they have access to the marketplace?

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#244

Post by aleph_minus_one »

infecto wrote: post #240
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a direct cost to Microsoft that these companies are pushing on them. Specifically around bandwidth. If Microsoft were not be very willing to bear this cost, they would never have built a marketplace into VS Code.

I don’t understand this argument. So because MSFT is large and has healthy margins they should eat the cost?

> So because MSFT is large and has healthy margins they should eat the cost?

If MSFT weren't willing to bear the cost, they wouldn't use the "app store" concept (marketplace) for VS Code.

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#245

Post by EasyMark »

Certified wrote: post #236

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. Microsoft knew they would never get significant market share unless they offered open source alternatives that let you circumvent the telemetry in the early days of VScode. Embrace. The acquisition of github was part of this strategy. They made an ecosystem that sucked a lot of plugin developer talent into their ecosystem. Extend. Now the market share is firmly in their grasp and competit…

This is it in a nutshell, with a lot of corps; IBM, Microsoft, etc. Be careful who you lie in bed with. Seemslike newer companies like Facebook and Google have a much much better track record. They may end a project but they don't suck you in and then say "nah, it's proprietary now"

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#246

Post by chilldsgn »

hmry wrote: post #216
chilldsgn wrote: post #140

This is one of the reasons why I switched to CLion for C++ work, and the fact that VS Code and its derivatives was a pain to configure for C++. I also use PHPStorm for web dev work and we use MS DevOps at work and that extension is unstable, causes IDE errors for me and I will not use MS products just for this one irksome bug. I prefer PHPStorm for my work, because working with PHP in VS Code has never been a great e…

> This is one of the reasons why I switched to CLion You switched to CLion because MS does not allow forks of their editor to run MS-developed extensions?

No, I said ONE of the reasons. I didn't list every single reason, just some that relates to Microsoft.

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#247

Post by mitchitized »

kyrra wrote: post #218
grobbyy wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terms of service often contain illegal provisions. I teach kids to flout them too. One of the biggest sins in school is kids learn to follow rules uncritically. There are specific protections allowed when the goal is to maintain / break compatibility. If Microsoft locks competitors out, competitors are quite often permitted to pick the lock. I can't comment on this situation since I don't know the details, but it's v…

I think your analogies are wrong. There is a direct cost to Microsoft that these companies are pushing on them. Specifically around bandwidth. Microsoft does not need to provide access for downloading plugins from their servers to anyone else.

It is a public website and a public service - it's like saying "hey I got free lemonade here, but you can't have it unless I decide I like you first."

If you're giving something away online for free, then you are giving it away for free. I'll never understand the cognitive dissonance of "conditionally free".

A more important question is where do we draw the line of abuse? If someone links to my website and that's okay with me, but someone else does and I don't like it, do I have the right to conditionally block access to them? And do they have the right to circumvent that to regain access that I freely give to others?

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#248

Post by chilldsgn »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #199
chilldsgn wrote: post #140

This is one of the reasons why I switched to CLion for C++ work, and the fact that VS Code and its derivatives was a pain to configure for C++. I also use PHPStorm for web dev work and we use MS DevOps at work and that extension is unstable, causes IDE errors for me and I will not use MS products just for this one irksome bug. I prefer PHPStorm for my work, because working with PHP in VS Code has never been a great e…

> This is one of the reasons why I switched to CLion for C++ work So jetbrains allows everyone to use their marketplace and their plugins outside their ides? I can download the jetbrains php extension add it to my own shell and not pay for it?

For both questions, I don't know, probably not. Sorry, I do not understand why you ask this question. Jetbrains' IDEs aren't open source.

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#249

Post by EasyMark »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #241
akdor1154 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lucky no-one is reliant on niche tools like NPM or GitHub, otherwise they'd be feeling mightily insecure right now.

> Lucky no-one is reliant on niche tools like NPM or GitHub, otherwise they'd be feeling mightily insecure right now. I did completely move away from GitHub (which is by now named "ShitHub" in some circles) the moment that Microsoft enforced 2FA on my account. Yes, perhaps 2FA is a good idea for many scenarios, but if some company forces it upon me, I won't have any tolerance to be willing to be their customer/user a…

I think even Microsoft is in too deep to suddenly pull the carpet on NPM/Github. Talk about a public relations nightmare

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#250

Post by kurtis_reed »

ryao wrote: post #208

Am I the only person using tmux+vim+cscope+bash+gcc as a development environment? I do not see the need for these GUIs. I also can develop software from just about anywhere as I only need to SSH into a machine with these things (+git) installed. There are no hostile license terms either. As an added bonus, this setup is excellent for pair programming. Just use voice chat via signal or anything else and have the other…

> I am not sure why anyone would use Microsoft’s tools for this.

Really?

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