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Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

theregister.com

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Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#231

Post by bombcar »

sgerenser wrote: post #224
bombcar wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An Enterprise customer of Microsoft agrees to be audited by MS. In exchange they pay a certain amount for effectively “unlimited use” of the appropriate software. In the past this meant volume license keys that would always activate; wouldn’t count how many devices, etc. And MS audit would check that what you reported was what you had. And could result in big increases in contract pricing. Now that everything is clou…

That was one aspect of the auditing, but they also sent audit notices to random small and medium businesses who were not volume license customers. Basically fishing for license violations, which obviously were very common (and usually unintentional) back in the 90s and early 2000s. Things like installing windows XP or Office on multiple machines without buying extra licenses. AFAIK it was mainly a scare tactic to pre…

It was a scare tactic, and it only really worked because there were a large percentage of illicit installs going around.

Business would have an "IT guy" who "saved money" - and they'd get a letter saying "let us audit you or we're taking you to court for copyright violations" and they'd scramble and agree to the audit.

Of course, the proper response was the legal version of "bite me" but since many of them were in violation, they acquiesced.

I never had it happen to anyone I was involved with or knew, but the stories were certainly flying around Slashdot (it was going to be the proximate trigger of the Year of Linux on the Desktop, don't you know).

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#232

Post by bigpeopleareold »

akdor1154 wrote: post #122
yoyohello13 wrote: post #7

Look, if you willingly have any piece of your stack relying on Microsoft you have to be ready for the rug pull. They WILL fuck you, it's guaranteed.

Lucky no-one is reliant on niche tools like NPM or GitHub, otherwise they'd be feeling mightily insecure right now.

Lucky I don't. It's my employer that takes the big risk. But I guess they take larger risks than their Microsoft-only strategy.

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#233

Post by mort96 »

wolvesechoes wrote: post #211
mort96 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people who see VS Code as just a decent gratis text editor, there's no problem. For people who care, to some degree, about using an open source tool, for whom the marketing that VS Code is open source played a role in their choice of using it, it should matter. And it matters that other projects (think Platform IO and more) choose VS Code as a platform to build on top of, and they get away with it because "it's o…

Then people should stop caring about open source, care about free software instead, and do not forget that it is free-as-in-freedom, so they should still pay for their tools. Otherwise keep hoping that your corporate or VC funded SaaS "disruptor" master will continue to be nice to you

But VS Code is not even open source, so even people who only care about open source should be worried about using VS Code.

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#234

Post by VyseofArcadia »

int_19h wrote: post #169
kstrauser wrote: post #3

And this is why I'm using Zed today. I'm deadly serious. I was a huge proponent of VSCode at first but I've soured on it, and now I don't want my workflow to depend on it in any way. Awesome software, but I don't trust the upstream org further than I must.

I actually worked on VSCode (Python support specifically) at Microsoft in the past, and seeing this kind of thing frustrates me to no end. The worst part is all the VSCode is still promoted to developers as open source, even though official extensions increasingly aren't, with bits and pieces gradually replaced with closed code. It's not that closed source is necessarily bad, but when F/OSS popularity is milked for m…

There's a special place in hell for orgs that do this. Google has been doing the same thing with Android.

IIRC Apple at least has always been fairly clear and consistent with what bits of its software are open and what bits aren't. To my knowledge they haven't been breaking off chunks of Darwin and closing them. (Although if I'm wrong do correct me.)

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#235

Post by ohgr »

sgerenser wrote: post #224
bombcar wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An Enterprise customer of Microsoft agrees to be audited by MS. In exchange they pay a certain amount for effectively “unlimited use” of the appropriate software. In the past this meant volume license keys that would always activate; wouldn’t count how many devices, etc. And MS audit would check that what you reported was what you had. And could result in big increases in contract pricing. Now that everything is clou…

That was one aspect of the auditing, but they also sent audit notices to random small and medium businesses who were not volume license customers. Basically fishing for license violations, which obviously were very common (and usually unintentional) back in the 90s and early 2000s. Things like installing windows XP or Office on multiple machines without buying extra licenses. AFAIK it was mainly a scare tactic to pre…

I was working for a law firm when they did that to us. The letter they got sent back was hilarious.

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#236

Post by Certified »

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

Microsoft knew they would never get significant market share unless they offered open source alternatives that let you circumvent the telemetry in the early days of VScode. Embrace. The acquisition of github was part of this strategy. They made an ecosystem that sucked a lot of plugin developer talent into their ecosystem. Extend. Now the market share is firmly in their grasp and competitors have become weaker. Extinguish.

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#237

Post by aleph_minus_one »

kyrra wrote: post #218
grobbyy wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terms of service often contain illegal provisions. I teach kids to flout them too. One of the biggest sins in school is kids learn to follow rules uncritically. There are specific protections allowed when the goal is to maintain / break compatibility. If Microsoft locks competitors out, competitors are quite often permitted to pick the lock. I can't comment on this situation since I don't know the details, but it's v…

I think your analogies are wrong. There is a direct cost to Microsoft that these companies are pushing on them. Specifically around bandwidth. Microsoft does not need to provide access for downloading plugins from their servers to anyone else.

> There is a direct cost to Microsoft that these companies are pushing on them. Specifically around bandwidth.

If Microsoft were not be very willing to bear this cost, they would never have built a marketplace into VS Code.

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#238

Post by 0rzech »

exceptione wrote: post #195
kstrauser wrote: post #3

And this is why I'm using Zed today. I'm deadly serious. I was a huge proponent of VSCode at first but I've soured on it, and now I don't want my workflow to depend on it in any way. Awesome software, but I don't trust the upstream org further than I must.

Even better: Theia. It supports most vscode extensions right out of the box. https://theia-ide.org/

Supports without auto updating them and along with other annoyances: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43793016 . VSCodium [1] has much better UX than Theia IDE, IMHO.

[1] https://vscodium.com/

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#239

Post by aleph_minus_one »

electroly wrote: post #71
londons_explore wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is worth the long term risk. Either you don't get caught and can move faster, or you get caught and the penalty is usually small and a long way down the line, by which time your company will have either folded or grown enough to pay without difficulty.

That's the play when your adversary is regulation--the government moves slowly, court cases move even slower, and you can grease the wheels politically. That is not the scenario here. Cursor is being hunted by an extremely motivated corporate competitor. Cursor has been leeching the gorilla's blood and the gorilla finally noticed. Microsoft doesn't (necessarily) need the law here. They have it if they need it, but th…

> The disastrous outcome isn't a penalty--it's a critical mass of users switching to Copilot because they can't use their Microsoft extensions in Cursor any more.

What will happen in this situation depends a lot on the "reputation" of Microsoft vs Anysphere (Cursor) and their "marketing":

If Anysphere's "marketing" wins, they mass of users will be very disgusted by Microsoft's moves that they will avoid it like the plague to touch basically any avoidable product of Microsoft (including in particular Github Copilot) again.

Re: Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks

#240

Post by infecto »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #237
kyrra wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your analogies are wrong. There is a direct cost to Microsoft that these companies are pushing on them. Specifically around bandwidth. Microsoft does not need to provide access for downloading plugins from their servers to anyone else.

> There is a direct cost to Microsoft that these companies are pushing on them. Specifically around bandwidth. If Microsoft were not be very willing to bear this cost, they would never have built a marketplace into VS Code.

I don’t understand this argument. So because MSFT is large and has healthy margins they should eat the cost?
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