Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#361

Post by phtrivier » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 5:05 PM UTC

i_have_an_idea wrote: post #113

phtrivier wrote: post #98

> Apple faces a €500 million fine for breaching the regulation’s rules for app stores, while Meta drew a penalty of €200 million for its "pay or consent" advertising model, > The procedural fines fall short of the two giant penalties issued by the EU executive under its antitrust laws last year: €1.8 billion to Apple for abusing its dominant position while distributing music streaming apps, and €797 million to Meta f…

> somehow deducted from subsidies Do you think the EU subsidizes Meta/Apple.

Not necessarily Meta, but it's very much possible that a large company is the recipient of both EU subsidies and EU fines :)

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#362

Post by msh » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 5:05 PM UTC

Derbasti wrote: post #345

mrtksn wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the most easily agreeable part of what the EU has been after It's also probably the most dangerous for Apple. It creates a cash incentive to push people outside of Apple's walled garden and show them what's outside. I really really hope Apple gets its act together, they are the greatest "the user experience comes first" company and they actually have great hard tech but they show signs of rent seeking behavior which…

> If not, they will have blunders and they will lose Europe since people are willing to look for alternatives as USA gets increasingly unpopular among the Europeans due to politics. But what alternative? There is no European smartphone OS. Windows and Steam OS and XBox are US-american, too. I suppose Linux, Playstation, and Nintendo, then?

There is android. Works pretty well in China without any google services.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#363

Post by xvector » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 5:08 PM UTC

stavros wrote: post #69

xvector wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't you allowed to track people across your own services if users consent? If they don't consent, they are free to simply not use your services. Problem solved. There is no actual need for this law. No rights are being infringed on. Just don't use the website.

Because that's how we like it, and that's the end of it. The people of the EU have said that these are the rules for doing business there, and saying "I should be able to murder people in my own house, if you don't want to be murdered, just don't come here, there's no need for anti-murdering laws" is rather irrelevant.

Conversely, you can justify any authoritarian unjust law because "that's how we like it."

"Deporting brown people without due process? That's how we like it, who are you to complain? You're free to not work with the US, but we know you will!"

Obviously a nuanced and meaningful conversation goes much deeper than "that's how we like it." Why is it such an infringement on user rights to not be allowed to use a website if they don't follow the owner's terms of use? That is unaddressed.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#364

Post by bloppe » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 5:10 PM UTC

Yeul wrote: post #161

madeofpalk wrote: post #11

> Under the DMA, app developers distributing their apps via Apple's App Store should be able to inform customers, free of charge, of alternative offers outside the App Store, steer them to those offers and allow them to make purchases. To me, this is the most easily agreeable part of what the EU has been after. It is unfair that Apple restricts Netflix from telling it's users that they can sign up and pay for Netlifx…

Aren't Americans always going on about free speech?

Technically, the first amendment applies only to state actors, not private entities. See Manhattan Community Access Corp. v. Halleck, Hudgens v. NLRB, and many other cases that upheld this interpretation. Private companies like Apple can restrict free speech on their platforms legally (at least as far as the first amendment is concerned).

That said, I believe in the principle of free speech, especially as envisioned by Tim Berners Lee for the Web. I wish more Americans could adhere to those principles even when the speech is not to their taste. Certainly feels like a lot of cultural backsliding happening.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#365

Post by dwaite » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 5:11 PM UTC

radlad wrote: post #343

walkingthisquai wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... Though I agree with you in principle, the DMA does target specific gatekeeper companies and the criteria for these were set conveniently to ensure no EU company is regulated by it. So I can see their point a little

Isn't the question whether they were set because they were US companies, or because they are dominant gatekeepers on the Internet? 5/7 designated gatekeepers are US companies: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/gatekeepers_en

I thought Booking Holdings Inc was also American.

There are zero European companies, including Spotify - the #1 music streaming marketplace in the world.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#366

Post by fidotron » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 5:12 PM UTC

LunaSea wrote: post #324

fidotron wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Users have no understanding of security. High status or not. Upper middle class americans absolutely do, or they don't stay that way for very long. The US has a culture of a lot more personal responsibility, and a lot less trust of the government to handle it. > Why is it that iPhone users prefer GMail over iCloud Mail? They already had it from before people realized it was a bait and switch. Work users will almost…

> They already had it from before people realized it was a bait and switch. So you mean to say that they made the same mistake that the supposed European users did with the app stores? > Upper middle class americans absolutely do, or they don't stay that way for very long. Yet they are on the same very public and absolutely no private or secure social networks (Facebook, TikTok, Instagram) as the rest of the world?

> So you mean to say that they made the same mistake that the supposed European users did with the app stores?

Absolutely, and they learned from this, as did Apple, hence the rules they came up with to stop Google and Facebook from doing what they were trying to do, which the EU remain oblivious to, supposedly.

This is why new Google products and services are basically doomed to fail in the US market, almost regardless of how good they are.

> Yet they are on the same very public and absolutely no private or secure social networks (Facebook, TikTok, Instagram) as the rest of the world?

You missed a big one: Snapchat; popular mainly in the US purely because of the privacy angle. Those others you mention are used for deliberate sharing.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#367

Post by superzamp » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 5:12 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #221

madeofpalk wrote: post #11

> Under the DMA, app developers distributing their apps via Apple's App Store should be able to inform customers, free of charge, of alternative offers outside the App Store, steer them to those offers and allow them to make purchases. To me, this is the most easily agreeable part of what the EU has been after. It is unfair that Apple restricts Netflix from telling it's users that they can sign up and pay for Netlifx…

>the most easily agreeable part of what the EU has been after It's also probably the most dangerous for Apple. It creates a cash incentive to push people outside of Apple's walled garden and show them what's outside. I really really hope Apple gets its act together, they are the greatest "the user experience comes first" company and they actually have great hard tech but they show signs of rent seeking behavior which…

I would imagine that getting the user out of the in-app purchase payment screen and attempt to redirect them at the website for payment, have them figure out how to enter credit card details etc would result in a drastically decreased conversion rate though.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#368

Post by poizan42 » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 5:12 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #261

onli wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. While DMA does not apply, GDPR does. But it gets ignored and weakened by decision against the letter and the spirit of the law - which does not surprise if you realize how much power those legacy publishers hold. Not so FB, not here at least. So it's not exactly the same regulation but pretty much the same situation. I'd also be pissed.

GDPR does not purport to outlaw targeted advertising. It just purports to require that the target consent. In pretty much every other area of law in most of the world (including Europe) consent can be bought--the party requesting consent gives the consenter something in exchange for consent, and will not give that thing unless consent is given. But under the rulings from some regulators that doesn't work for GDPR. Co…

GDPR Art. 7 section 4:

> When assessing whether consent is freely given, utmost account shall be taken of whether, inter alia, the performance of a contract, including the provision of a service, is conditional on consent to the processing of personal data that is not necessary for the performance of that contract.

Don't blame the regulators, it's pretty clear that "paying" with consent is a no-go from the text itself.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#369

Post by miohtama » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 5:15 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #221

madeofpalk wrote: post #11

> Under the DMA, app developers distributing their apps via Apple's App Store should be able to inform customers, free of charge, of alternative offers outside the App Store, steer them to those offers and allow them to make purchases. To me, this is the most easily agreeable part of what the EU has been after. It is unfair that Apple restricts Netflix from telling it's users that they can sign up and pay for Netlifx…

>the most easily agreeable part of what the EU has been after It's also probably the most dangerous for Apple. It creates a cash incentive to push people outside of Apple's walled garden and show them what's outside. I really really hope Apple gets its act together, they are the greatest "the user experience comes first" company and they actually have great hard tech but they show signs of rent seeking behavior which…

The money comes first (:

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#370

Post by Herring » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 5:16 PM UTC

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #238

US officials and businessmen keep on repeating the same thing: > The European Commission is attempting to handicap successful American businesses while allowing Chinese and European companies to operate under different standards. But this is wildly untrue. The EU isn't hand-picking individual organisations and fining them because they're American, they're fining them because they're in breach of existing legislation.…

That's called gaslighting, and it's a hostile act. Truth is the first casualty of war. If someone is trying to deceive you (or deceive others and ruin your reputation), they are actively exposing you to some kind of risk, usually for their own benefit, which is a hostile act. Recommend you act accordingly.