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Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#311

Post by wat10000 »

lr4444lr wrote: post #293

I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction. He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.” [0] [0] https://www.independen…

That’s reprehensible, but also refreshingly open-minded. It shows an awareness that other religions deserve an equal footing to his own. I prefer this over the nuts who decry Sharia law while wanting to implement a Christian equivalent.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#313

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

hliyan wrote: post #13

I wonder whether we will have another Jesuit Pope. Jesuits are supposed to be generally very education focused, more progressive (especially w.r.t science) and stand less on ceremony. I know nothing about how the College of Cardinals work, but if they're anything like other political voting bodies, one of two outcomes are possible: a swing to the Right (and toward tradition), recognizing the current balance of power…

Francis spent the last couple of years creating new cardinals to stack the College in what - he hoped - was a more progressive direction.

But the College has a mind of its own, and there is going to be some furious horse trading happening behind the scenes to steer the result in one direction or the other.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#314

Post by sneak »

fleabitdev wrote: post #110

Last year, an interviewer asked Francis how he envisages hell. His response stayed with me: “It’s difficult to imagine it. What I would say is not a dogma of faith, but my personal thought: I like to think hell is empty; I hope it is.”

It is impossible to reconcile the idea of an omnipotent god that is simultaneously good and permits people to be tortured for eternity.

Perhaps he chose the “god is good” over the “god, despite being able, will not prevent billions of reasonable and decent people from suffering eternally” fork in the road. You can’t logically choose both, and if you’re the pope, you probably had better have a belief in the goodness of god.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#316

Post by mantas »

carlos-menezes wrote: post #54
jjude wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pope John Paul II was also extremely popular across the world.

He was, but John Paul II was traditionally conservative. I think Francis resonated with more people–Christian or not–because he emphasized compassion, humility, and social justice. He spoke more openly about issues like poverty, climate change, and inclusion–his encyclical LAUDATO SI’ is a great read–, and he often used language and gestures that the "common man" could relate to. Perhaps the way he dressed so simply–…

JPII was also elected in a very different world. And he played a big moral role in taking down iron curtain and getting Eastern Europe back Europe.

Meanwhile Francis was quite the opposite. Especially as seen in the light of Russian aggression against Ukraine. For much of Eastern Europe that was like 180 turn. At least here both church goers and not seem to despise Francis while JPII has a warm place in the hearts both factions. Maybe it was different far away where Russia ain’t a hot topic.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#317

Post by atrus »

kashunstva wrote: post #302
lr4444lr wrote: post #293

I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction. He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.” [0] [0] https://www.independen…

> You cannot insult the faith of others Why not? The concept of proportionality between an “offense” and a response that characterizes the liberal worldview was entirely missing here. If one chooses to take offense about some deeply held personal view, whatever it is, then fine; but let your response be proportional. The music of Beethoven is sacred to me, let’s say, but I’m not prepared to murder you if you mock it,…

I think there's an implied "and not expect a response" there.

If you insult unhinged people (and people who kill over a mere 'offense' to their religion are unhinged), don't be surprised when you receive an unhinged response back.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#318

Post by blame-troi »

swat535 wrote: post #299

Pope Francis caused quite a bit of controversy among Catholics. From his crackdown on the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) to his often unscripted, pastoral tone on issues like sexuality, economics, and interfaith dialogue, he unsettled many and yet drew others closer to the Church. With his passing, we’re left to process a papacy that disrupted in the deepest sense of the word. As a Catholic, I often found myself both i…

Being both inspiring and unsettling to me says he did the job well. I will remember him as the smiling Pope.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#319

Post by gwbas1c »

kashunstva wrote: post #302
lr4444lr wrote: post #293

I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction. He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.” [0] [0] https://www.independen…

> You cannot insult the faith of others Why not? The concept of proportionality between an “offense” and a response that characterizes the liberal worldview was entirely missing here. If one chooses to take offense about some deeply held personal view, whatever it is, then fine; but let your response be proportional. The music of Beethoven is sacred to me, let’s say, but I’m not prepared to murder you if you mock it,…

Edit, see https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/buzz-aldrin-punched-conspi...

That being said, as an American, the culture of mocking and gracefully learning from being mocked runs deep in my blood. I don't know if others share that same worldview.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#320

Post by mantas »

detourdog wrote: post #179
carlos-menezes wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was, but John Paul II was traditionally conservative. I think Francis resonated with more people–Christian or not–because he emphasized compassion, humility, and social justice. He spoke more openly about issues like poverty, climate change, and inclusion–his encyclical LAUDATO SI’ is a great read–, and he often used language and gestures that the "common man" could relate to. Perhaps the way he dressed so simply–…

Pope Francis was the only Pope that resonated with me. I was really shocked that at how human his words were. The moment he came on the scene he seemed genuine and honest. I hope they find more like him.

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