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Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#141

Post by usrusr »

vintagedave wrote: post #10
seydor wrote: post #5

We live in cynical times, i hope his passing reminds people that narratives and morals matter

From his statement yesterday: > May the principle of humanity never fail to be the hallmark of our daily actions. In the face of the cruelty of conflicts that involve defenceless civilians and attack schools, hospitals and humanitarian workers, we cannot allow ourselves to forget that it is not targets that are struck, but persons, each possessed of a soul and human dignity. Yes. I agree with you and hope so too.

"Think of those souls!" reads to me cynically close to "don't think of those who ordered and executed those strikes". Almost like a deliberate distraction. When you turn forgiveness into a carte blanche for serial sin, you're doing Christianity wrong.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#142

Post by conductr »

yodsanklai wrote: post #92
CKMo wrote: post #45

I genuinely liked him, even as an atheist. He seemed to be trying his best to make the world a better place and I can't fault him for that.

> .. even as an atheist lots of christians didn't like him, considering he was too progressive

I think these are two sides of the same coin

Re: Pope Francis has died

#143

Post by tomhow »

voidwtf wrote: post #6

[flagged]

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43749471 and marked it offtopic.

Please adhere to the guidelines, particularly these ones:

Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#144

Post by kome »

yodsanklai wrote: post #92
CKMo wrote: post #45

I genuinely liked him, even as an atheist. He seemed to be trying his best to make the world a better place and I can't fault him for that.

> .. even as an atheist lots of christians didn't like him, considering he was too progressive

i saw this only on the internet tho, and mainly the english speaking internet, never in real life.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#145

Post by cladopa »

StefanBatory wrote: post #26

:( And for political side - in Poland, he was seen as way too leftist/liberal for the conservatives in Church, and too pro-Russian for the liberals in it - he had not condemned Russian invasion of Ukraine.

The concept of Liberal in the US is different from liberal in Europe. In Europe "liberal" means supporter of low taxes, small govertment. The concept in the US has to do with sexual liberation and sexual freedom more than economic marxism.

Francis was not sexually liberal. He was marxist. He believed in liberation theology.

As someone who knew personally the man from a spiritual exercises' house in Spain(obviously when he was not yet Pope), I never liked the guy.

He was the friend of dictators. Loved so much Raul Castro, and Maduro, never criticised them, but criticised the affluence of western democracies. His business was the poor and he loved poor makers.

His support for Putin and not denouncing the takeover of absolute power was jarring for someone in his position.

You can be a leftist religious leader, but you have to report abuses when you see them, specially if the abuses are made by your friends. Of course you will lose them if you do.

Francis was too weak in character to oppose them. But as a Pope, that is your job.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#146

Post by phtrivier »

Condoléances.

I wonder if a Pope's funeral can serve as an occasion for backdoor diplomacy - the world needs a lot of that.

If the next Pope is young and energetic, he may want to use his first few days making a mark in history by putting people from different side of different conflicts.

Paraxodically, he may have more chance putting the Israelis and Palestinian around a table (or at least provide the optics for a deal that would be discussed in the usual boring transactional way.)

On the other hand, one has to wonder what a populist pope would do (interfere in elections ? Make a u turn on climate, migrants, etc... ? Go back to hardcore conservatism ? Or fall into irrelevance ?)

Re: Pope Francis has died

#147

Post by basisword »

With most figureheads there will be words or actions with which you disagree. But his rejection of the 'riches' that came with the job, especially in the early days will hopefully outlast him.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#148

Post by yoavm »

In my early 20s I was part of secular and socialist Jewish research centre. Franciskus was just voted as the new pope, and my first assignment was to write an opinion paper about him, and forecast his future actions. I don't think anyone, including myself, expected that I'll end up with a positive report — religion was almost always a negative thing, and Catholic Christianity even more so. However, I concluded that his action seem to show that he cares more for people rather than for specific rules or biblical quotes. That he is flexible and open to changing things. In retrospect, I think the whole world benefited from his openness. I wish we could say that about other influential religious leaders.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#149

Post by fastball »

ii41 wrote: post #97
mschuster91 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With all due respect, massacring civilians because “you have no other choice” is historically not an excuse holding up in courts. The thing is, under the rules of war, protected installations (such as residential areas or even hospitals) lose their protection if they are being abused by a warring party for military operations. Otherwise, it would be an open invitation for anyone to do what Hamas did - force the oth…

[flagged]

Your one-sided definition of "force" is patently ridiculous on its face.

"Everything Hamas does is forced by Israel's actions, nothing Israel does is forced by Hamas"

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