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Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

nature.com

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Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#251

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Interesting! Why can't we just remove the triglycerids from the blood before they trigger adipogenesis? Basically we need a form of dialysis.

I have no real or deep knowledge, just some casual pop news reading. Isn't ketosis the state, in which the body switches to fat as the primary fuel?

To answer your question, yes that is what ketosis is. Eliminate the non-fibrous carbs from your diet and after 48 hours or once the carbs are out of your blood stream your body will start to break down stored body fat. Through a process in the liver you get ketones. In the context of meal planning, meal timing, and other lifestyle choices it's extremely effective. For anyone with ADHD / ADD patterns do TRY IT for a month!

The study and the discussion here however are focused on reducing the quantity of those adipocyte cells in the body, which aren't reduced through ketosis. I think ketosis causes more of a volumetric reduction of each adipocyte cell but I'm really not sure.

Like a balloon filling with air, do adipocyte cells expand in volume while storing lipids?

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#252
post #210

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Testicular atrophy and HPT axis suppression is a thoroughly documented side effect of TRT and steroids. Even beginner bodybuilders know that taking steroids will crush their natural testosterone production. They can kind of bring it back by taking short courses and using certain medications after the cycle, but most discover that some permanent damage is being done with each cycle. There are two problems with framing…

> Honestly, they don't care. I skim the testosterone subreddits occasionally and many people brag and joke about how small their testicles are. Wouldn't surprise me at all if most of that was coping behavior.

What is there to cope about? It's not a big deal, and arguably a benefit.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#253

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Similar adaptions occur in muscle. The extent of new muscle fiber development (hyperplasia) is debated, so there are multiples factors influencing how muscle retains some memory of past strength ability. Once you’ve reached a level of physical strength it’s easier to return to that level in the future. This has been a topic of debate in the sports world because past anabolic steroid use could therefore carry benefits…

I always hear this "TRT for life" thing but every bodybuilder I've known on gear has had no problem going on/off on a blast-and-cruise with post-cycle therapy.

Post-cycle therapy will take longer if you're taking exogenous testosterone for longer, but it's definitely not a 'for life'/'impossible' thing if you've been on TRT for a few years and decide to stop. It's just fearmongering.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#254
post #23

Just went trough Yo-Yo. Any good strategies on how to overcome it for good?

For me weightloss worked over a long period of time with a couple of strategies. 1. One was not eating breakfast, this works well when I'm in the office. Then you have fasting built into your daily routine. This has many metabolic benefits. 2. Switching to a low carb diet (keto). I never thought I'd quit eating bread, but reducing carbonhydrates (esp. sugar) and eating more eggs & meat had the biggest effect on my we…

This is pretty extreme. :-)

The magic is that just counting calories basically leads to the same outcome: less carbs and sugary stuff, less fatty meats, more lean meat, more veggies, etc.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting because about 20 or so years ago when I was super into bodybuilding, you couldn't talk about a "cycle" on a bodybuilding forum without talking about a "post cycle protocol." I know that's different than permanent TRT but I feel like you couldn't get very far researching that stuff without understanding that you natural test production (and sperm production) would get "shut down" as soon as you sta…

Yeah, it's well known that steroids shut you down. The problem with the broscience is that the PCT is talked about like it reverses everything like an antidote, but long-term bodybuilders often end up on TRT because eventually they can't get back to baseline.

That isn't true. Dedicated bodybuilders, starting more commonly ~5 years ago, decided that PCT wasn't worth it. Instead of typical 16-20 week cycles followed by 4-6 weeks of PCT, they adjust the dose between supraphysiological and (generally) top-of-normal, i.e.: blast and cruise.

It's not because they couldn't recover, it's because they don't want to or see the point.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#256

The more you research/learn about obesity, the worse it is, much like smoking. One of the most depressing stats is that dieting does not get easier with time. The probability of eventually regaining all the weight eventually converges to 100%. Even if you're successful for 2 years, people still regain by year 4, 5, etc. The body never resists trying to regain the weight. GLP-1 drugs are the best hope yet.

That just isn’t true.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#258
post #2

As someone who's struggled with weight loss, and have known others to struggle with it well, I think we colloquially called this "slow metabolism". It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. I was recently sent a video about fat adaptation (basically teaching your body to be better at burning fat) by a very fit friend, but I wonder how much o…

I have had a slow metabolism since I was a teenager. I don't think I've ever experienced a day in my life where I haven't thought about my weight, body composition, or felt guilty about eating food. And I'm not even that big. I've just never had the physique I wanted, and I always attributed it to having a slow metabolism.

I'm turning 40 in May, so since the start of February, I've finally pulled up my bootstraps and started taking my health seriously. I was likely 225 lbs at 5'10". Easily 32+% body fat.

The first thing I did was a deep extended fast, drinking only water, electrolytes, supplements, bone broth, and black coffee. I was able to shed a good amount of weight, fast. However, the longest I could fast for was 6 days; No matter what I tried, I could not figure out how to get good sleep. I tried once more for 4 days, and saw no improvement, so I stopped trying to fast. Mentally I could handle it, but without quality sleep, there was no way I could continue. This was mid-March, and I was at 204.5 lbs.

Also in mid-March, I did a VO2 max test, while fasted for 72 hours. It was very apparent that my metabolism was fat adapted. My VO2 max was very low at 33.8 ml/kg, which was to be expected. My RMR was found to be 1998 kcal/day, and my fat max HR was 161 bpm. Crossover to 100% carbs was at 179 bpm.

Since then, I've done a 180, and started eating about 1800-2000 kcal per day. My first goal is to ensure I eat 170-200g of protein per day, through as much whole food as possible, using whey or protein when needed. The rest of my diet is very clean, with no real restrictions on fats, and keeping carbs as low as possible. It's a fairly ketogenic diet, but I don't get worked up if my net carbs go to 50+g. Foods are usually Greek yogurt, flax, pumpkin seeds, nuts, eggs, berries, fish, poultry, and green vegetables/salads. If I ever add fat to anything, it's extra virgin olive oil first, then maybe butter/cream (i.e. in coffee). I take a number of supplements like Omega-3 fish oils, multivitamins, magnesium, and make my own electrolyte drink. Creatine as well.

I find that by the time I've done all of this, I have a very difficult time eating, and even trying to fit anything else in. I am never hungry, nor do I feel cravings for other foods. We just came back from Miami, and I had some ice cream with the kids, and some baked goods. I enjoyed them, but I was very excited to be back to my normal foods.

Since then, I've been running 3-4 times a week, focusing on Zone 2 training. I do 4 days a week of weightlifting, focusing on the big compound lifts. I have a 10K race on May 11, and a sprint distance triathlon on July 27 that I'm training for.

For this entire month, I have stayed at a constant 207.5 lbs +/- 0.5 lbs. I have been tracking other measurements like circumferences and body fat (using calibers and BIA scale), and it's apparent that I have gained strength, regained muscle mass, and improved my overall fitness. Running is still at a slow pace, but actually enjoyable now. My wearables estimate that my VO2 max is 37 ml/kg; they did show 33 ml/kg last month when I had the test, so they seem to be correlated.

I think the hardest part of the last month has been the sheer amount of work I've put in, only to watch the scale stay steady. I track my intake rigorously, weighing everything I can and using MyFitnessPal to track it all. How are people able to eat anything else? I couldn't add rice or grains to my diet even if I wanted to, I would easily hit 2500+ kcal per day.

People eat that much? Or rather, burn that much? I burn 2000 kcal per rest day, and maybe 2800-3200 kcal on workout days.

I will stick with this, since it is working to improve my health and fitness. It would just be nice to see the scale move without having to fast for multiple days. Cursed slow metabolism.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#259
post #169

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It happens because we act like calories are calories when it's clearly not true. Calorie counts in nutrition data are generated by something like burning the food in a bomb calorimeter. Which is most definitely not what our bodies do. We have all kinds of different biochemical ways of metabolizing different types of foods. So someone eating 1000 calories of day could be eating very healthy or they could be ingesting…

Why is it that people claim the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to humans?

Obviously the laws of thermodynamics apply, but the most naive application of the laws of thermodynamics doesn't.

A human body isn't a bomb calorimeter and it doesn't perfectly combust everything you eat.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#260
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. It is the exact, polar opposite for me. I cannot gain even if I eat junk all day.

I used to think the same. I would guess that you do not have a big breakfast. Without getting a real meal in for breakfast, hitting a huge calorie surplus is difficult. If you counted your calories and tried to get a 1000 calorie meal for breakfast, hit 3000 calories a day, you’d probably gain 10% in a few weeks. Weight training is good too… you don’t want to just gain fat. 1000 calorie breakfast = bagel with cream c…

I tried eating all that, not just for breakfast, but 3-4 times a day, give or take, sans berries and banana.
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