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Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

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Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#181

Post by Natsu »

gosub100 wrote: post #127
Natsu wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've found, being overweight negatively affects sleep. As far as I can tell, the extra weight simply makes it hard to breathe at night, leading to apnea. This can then cause depression and anxiety, depression because you wake up tired and feeling awful every single day and anxiety because you may wake up with night terrors after suffocating in your sleep. At least it's easy to get a home sleep apnea test an…

> anxiety because you may wake up with night terrors after suffocating in your sleep. I have SA and a history of "mild" nightmares going back decades. Nothing terrifying, but very uncomfortable such as snakes hiding everywhere, and recently other animals such as tigers. I can't prove it, but I believe these are subconscious efforts by your brain to scare you into breathing.

I mean, panic attacks where you hyperventilate are basically the drowning reflex going off. So given that a lot of the dreams in our case were literally suffocating (drowning, etc.), I'm pretty sure that some part of the brain gets awakened enough to realize something, if not exactly what.

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#182

Post by Natsu »

vkou wrote: post #139
anktor wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would support look like in this situation? Honest question I simply don't know

It needs extensive calibration, if you don't want it to either be ineffective, or wake up in the morning, with your stomach pumped full of air, like a balloon. The latter is quite painful.

Not to mention finding out which masks suit you the best.

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#183

Post by arisbe__ »

ivraatiems wrote: post #174
arisbe__ wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medicine is wholly corrupt. If a hypothetical drug existed that was radically cheap and improved general health outcomes by 25%-50%, the institution of medicine and insurance by logic of self-preservation would not allow to exist or be known. Such a drug would undermine things as they stand and so institutional self-preservation is now the primary purpose trumping any sort of too good actual solution . You will learn…

All of your posts on this thread, honestly are some of the most bizarre I've ever seen on this site. I'm here saying: "this treatment massively improved my life and might have actually saved it!" and your response is "this shows medicine is wholly corrupt and cannot be trusted." It's especially odd given that CPAP is a non-invasive low-to-no-side-effect solution whose only real drawback is that the machines are expen…

I know I was a bit over-the-top, but I stand by this logic that is far more general than "CPAP-as-an-answer" (but I do personally think it applies here but that is moreso speculation):

> "...If a hypothetical drug existed that was radically cheap and improved general health outcomes by 25%-50%, the institution of medicine and insurance by logic of self-preservation would not allow to exist or be known."

The reasoning is that there is a large capacity and infrastructure of trained professionals and insurance expectational-warp. If the medical visits and drug prescriptions were decimated the financial side of things would collapse. The reason they turn a blind eye to what we think of as truth-oriented science is that early career professionals have mortgages and debt and so are themselves locked-in to playing their cards in favor of institutional self-preservation. When this gets out of hand they begin to habitualize a rationalization-like thinking that is purely self-serving.

I am of the opinion that we are far past the point of corruption (it is unconscious in the professionals themselves), but it is mostly a question of debt thresholds and group psychology.

My reasons for saying you should yourself as a sleep apnea patient should just figure it out is that that is how pessimistic I am about such professional blindness. To be honest I'm leaving out the main problem with CPAP because by your response you just aren't ready to engage in creative thought (no offense that is almost all of humanity). Most of the intellectual and professional world sets a bar so damn low its like they are playing limbo. Meanwhile patients are like zombified robots programmed to trust the white lab coats like lambs to the slaughter.

Just like political debate is self-perpetuating such that a negatively defined identity is preserved and valued over mediation and understanding, most professionals use their brain power to self-sabotage away from institutional-skeptical inquiry as its too uncomfortable to self-sacrifice reputation, income and eventually their careers.

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#184

Post by arisbe__ »

yosame wrote: post #173
arisbe__ wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think they even want to understand apnea? It seems to me there is a toxic incentive situation here. I'd bet money a full blown set of variable controls will be found to solve this problem and come from outside sleep medicine. Its not magic, its that modern professionalized science is devoid of inquiry.

In countries with subsidised health care there's still an incentive to solve these problems, since the solution will lower healthcare costs.

And how many out-of-box variables have they had patients control for? If it's less than 25 I think medicine has been hijacked by the consumer wanting to not participate in the medical-inquiry process.

I could solve the issue with perhaps 1000-5000 serious patient-subjects, a small amount of funding and a friggen smart phone app.

Also a non-corrupt government should seem to want to lower healthcare costs. But just because politicians say that doesn't mean much because the incentives of government too are poisoned. They don't in practice (and in sum) want to lower healthcare costs. Why would you think that?

It's self-sacrifice that is needed. Most medicine will collapse in my lifetime, and the professionals, politicians and lobbyists brought this upon themselves (and unfortunately us).

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#185

Post by tasuki »

matthest wrote: post #177
tasuki wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I walk over six kilometres (almost) every day and don't sleep well.

How's your sleeping environment? Do you have black out shades? Keep your room cool?

I have a toddler kicking me in the head.

(Even before that, I didn't sleep particularly well. Yes, when I visit a friend in the countryside, where it's really dark and quiet, I sleep better. Perhaps I should look into blackout shades!)

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#186

Post by schwartzworld »

Natsu wrote: post #179
schwartzworld wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy to get, hard to get used to for many. It’s common for doctors to offer little to no support after prescribing the machine.

There are discords where users offer each other advice. That said, many of the tuning parameters require the doctor to set them and if you make an appointment you can talk over the problems and get them to adjust the pressure or whatever.

> That said, many of the tuning parameters require the doctor to set them

No, they don't. At least not on a Resmed machine. You just have to enter a special mode to change them. On my machine that's holding down 2 buttons for a couple of seconds.

> if you make an appointment you can talk over the problems and get them to adjust the pressure or whatever.

I'm glad you had a Dr that did this for you. It is not the universal experience, and it definitely wasn't mine.

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#187

Post by Natsu »

schwartzworld wrote: post #186
Natsu wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are discords where users offer each other advice. That said, many of the tuning parameters require the doctor to set them and if you make an appointment you can talk over the problems and get them to adjust the pressure or whatever.

> That said, many of the tuning parameters require the doctor to set them No, they don't. At least not on a Resmed machine. You just have to enter a special mode to change them. On my machine that's holding down 2 buttons for a couple of seconds. > if you make an appointment you can talk over the problems and get them to adjust the pressure or whatever. I'm glad you had a Dr that did this for you. It is not the unive…

Which two buttons?

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#188

Post by pazimzadeh »

carlosjobim wrote: post #130
pazimzadeh wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems likely like the need for sleep then selects for many social/group behaviors. “Solo self-found” is not really an option unless you’re really good at hiding or have some other tricks

Most animals sleep alone, that's simple reality.

Recent work suggests that "Animals that live in groups do not sleep in isolation":

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016953472...

So now we just need to know what percent of animals live in groups.

While older studies suggest that most mammals live alone, new field data show that only 22% of mammals are solitary: https://zslpublications.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/...

Keep in mind that my claim doesn't require them all sleeping together - any protective any social behavior would suffice (e.g. Having look-outs, etc.)

Since it's such simple reality, surely you can support your claim?

Maybe you were talking about non-mammals?

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