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Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

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Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#121

Post by ivraatiems »

swah wrote: post #120
ivraatiems wrote: post #112

Tangentially related, but very important to me and hopefully helpful to others here: I have sleep apnea. So do most of the men in my family. Though I am overweight, I haven't always been, but I have always had the condition, as have they. For those who don't know, sleep apnea is a condition where you stop breathing in your sleep, wake up slightly to fix that and start breathing again, and then fall back asleep. It so…

Is there any chance that Apple Watch or wife would not notice a severe apnea condition?

No idea about Apple Watch, but wife, definitely. My wife noticed it. (She's also a doctor, but anyone can identify the sound of choking and gasping, which is what it sounds like.)

I can't give medical advice, but: Record yourself on your phone overnight and listen back. If you hear loud snoring with gaps or pauses in between, and especially any sort of choking, gasping, or coughing sound, and you don't remember doing it... definitely look into it further.

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#122

Post by ivraatiems »

lxgr wrote: post #119
ivraatiems wrote: post #112

Tangentially related, but very important to me and hopefully helpful to others here: I have sleep apnea. So do most of the men in my family. Though I am overweight, I haven't always been, but I have always had the condition, as have they. For those who don't know, sleep apnea is a condition where you stop breathing in your sleep, wake up slightly to fix that and start breathing again, and then fall back asleep. It so…

Do you know if fitness trackers with integrated pulse oximeters can detect sleep apnea? My Apple Watch has an oximeter (I bought it before that feature was pulled in the US), and there's a "sleep apnea notifications" section in the "Health" app, but I'm not sure if the absence of notifications implies an absence of a problem. Would sleep apnea always be visible as a lower blood oxygen level when sleeping, or can ther…

I'm not a doctor, can't give medical advice. This is my understanding:

> Would sleep apnea always be visible as a lower blood oxygen level when sleeping, or can there be negative effects even without that?

It would not always be visible, no, if your AHI was low enough. It is still damaging even if your blood oxygen is okay, because you are waking up to keep it that way. You're not getting enough sleep as a result.

You might try the recording trick I mentioned below to listen for sounds of it, but if you're unsure at all, I'd consider seeing a sleep doc.

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#123

Post by throwaway7893 »

kridsdale1 wrote: post #76
throwaway7893 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of our goals is to reduce entropy in the Universe, and being awake lets us do 100x more of that than if we were in low power mode

What kind of sleep are you having that is more entropic than your waking?

Entropy increases in the universe by default, so sleeping allows that to happen more than in the waking state

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#124

Post by absolutelastone »

kridsdale1 wrote: post #70
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iirc, biphasic sleep is the “usual way” people sleep without the advent of electricity, yes? “the waking hour”, and all that. I honestly believe that this is not "natural", but rather an adaptation to the absurdly long European winter nights. Note that we didn't evolve there, so it seems unlikely that bi-phasic sleep is the most primal way.

Some of us have partially evolved for that environment. My ancestors eyes turned blue to see in the dim light and their hair and skin changed from Ethiopian Black to pale and blonde af. Seems reasonable to expect some degree of genetic drift in sleep regulation as well, but I know of no data on this.

A bigger pupil would work better for dim light vision. Light through the iris would sacrifice daylight vision. The light skin on the other hand does have an obvious benefit in that climate for Vitamin D.

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#125

Post by instagib »

swah wrote: post #120
ivraatiems wrote: post #112

Tangentially related, but very important to me and hopefully helpful to others here: I have sleep apnea. So do most of the men in my family. Though I am overweight, I haven't always been, but I have always had the condition, as have they. For those who don't know, sleep apnea is a condition where you stop breathing in your sleep, wake up slightly to fix that and start breathing again, and then fall back asleep. It so…

Is there any chance that Apple Watch or wife would not notice a severe apnea condition?

No and yes for wife or a video recording. Get a sleep study for 100%.

My suggestion is an elevated sleep position by increasing your head position with two stacked pillows or raising the head of the bed. It mechanically helps sleep apnea. It got me from a high Apnea-Hypopnea Index (AHI) score to a very low one with the cpap.

The Apple Watch has not shown an ability to identify sleep disturbances or sleep apnea when it should according to my cpap AHI score and when napping/sleeping without a cpap.

Blood oxygen measurements are basically useless from my research unless you need oxygen because you are so sick you cannot walk short distances. Everyone seems to have a different % they function well at asleep or awake. I have also used a much more accurate and faster reading device than the Apple Watch.

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#126

Post by absolutelastone »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #4

I'm not a neuroscientist, but it's hard to understand why anyone thinks that this mandatory downtime for all animals is just for a special reason. Why wouldn't sleeping be a catch-all window for autonomous maintenance and overall survival? Always take the most likely reason.

Depends how you look at it, but fatal things should have a clear explanation for why they kill you. We can survive longer without food and that one is easy to explain.

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#127

Post by gosub100 »

Natsu wrote: post #77
EncomLab wrote: post #20

The generations in my family are full of people who had dementia/Alzheimer's/auto-immune disorders. They all had anxiety, and they all had sleep disorders - I'm certain there is a connection among it all. I joined a Stanford study and had a spinal tap sample submitted for testing - in theory I am "unlikely" to develop anything for the next 20 years - but that only gets me to my late 60's :(

From what I've found, being overweight negatively affects sleep. As far as I can tell, the extra weight simply makes it hard to breathe at night, leading to apnea. This can then cause depression and anxiety, depression because you wake up tired and feeling awful every single day and anxiety because you may wake up with night terrors after suffocating in your sleep. At least it's easy to get a home sleep apnea test an…

> anxiety because you may wake up with night terrors after suffocating in your sleep.

I have SA and a history of "mild" nightmares going back decades. Nothing terrifying, but very uncomfortable such as snakes hiding everywhere, and recently other animals such as tigers. I can't prove it, but I believe these are subconscious efforts by your brain to scare you into breathing.

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#128

Post by bpodgursky »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #72
jader201 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to get by fine with 5-6 hours, too, until I started getting 7-8 and realized how much better I feel.

I have spent months at a time getting 7-8 (amid years of 5-6). I never notice any difference and am actually surprised my body can do 7-8 to no purpose.

From the perspective of evolution there's a purpose... burn fewer calories in the dark when there's nothing else to do.

The question is whether it still matters in the modern era.

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#129

Post by leonidasv »

The periods of my life I was the most productive and learned the most were when those when I managed to sleep >=8 hours every single night, in a dark, silent environment. I still manage to sleep >=7 hours most nights, but I feel like it's getting harder to keep a baseline of 8 hours for every night. Don't know if my sleep needs changed over time due to aging, or if it's just a consequence of having more responsibilities.

Re: Sleep is essential – researchers are trying to work out why

#130

Post by carlosjobim »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #65
api wrote: post #17

Whatever sleep does, it's something nature has had a tough time optimizing out despite the extreme vulnerability it creates and the sacrifice of a little under half an organism's waking time. That should tell us it's something incredibly important that's hard to do any other way. Edit: on the other hand... if Earth had two suns and rarely had periods of darkness, you wonder if maybe there would have been more evoluti…

Seems likely like the need for sleep then selects for many social/group behaviors. “Solo self-found” is not really an option unless you’re really good at hiding or have some other tricks

Most animals sleep alone, that's simple reality.
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