Live data from Hacker News

I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

scottaaronson.blog

81–90 of 115 posts

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#81
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shame IMO is that this is going to further polarize people along the lines of "Yay, stick it to those rich schools" and "Omg, this is literally the second coming of Hitler." It would be lovely to have a broad conversation about why it makes no sense for the government to play HR manager for universities, and ALSO ask why billions in tax money is perennially given to ultra-wealthy, exclusive universities who are o…

> " ...more than capable of finding opportunities for profit in the private sector... " You actually want research institutions to be even more patent-happy moneygrubbers than they already are today? That's going to keep even more technologies and drugs unaffordable without licensing and hold back progress.

That seems like a false dichotomy, unless you're really saying the two options are "Billions in federal funds" or "Ivy Leagues will become even more horrific in the world of patent law." In fact rewarding such bad behavior with billions seems insane, surely that money could be better spent on institutions willing to commit to less combative practices.

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#82
post #77

Just a few decades ago US had quotas, how many Jews could study on university. Isaac Asimov could not be medical doctor, and become writer for this reason! Even today Harward is doing everything it can, to have a less Jews, they are not preferred minority! Please spare me of this selective "antisemitism"!

[dead]

If Harvard chooses less gifted student, just to avoid "yet another Jew", it is clearly antisemitism!

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#83

"...once the government did take away funding and present its ultimatum—completely outside the process specified in Title VI law—Columbia’s administration quickly agreed to everything asked, to howls of outrage from the left-leaning faculty. Yet despite its total capitulation, the government has continued to hold Columbia’s medical research and other science funding hostage, while inventing a never-ending list of add…

[edit] Don't kill the messenger...

I think the clearest and most cogent articulation I have seen was given by Marc Andreesen back in January, in a 4 hour podcast on Trump policy with Lex Friedman, starting at 58 min. His position was that University reform is not possible. Instead, the institutions themselves need to be destroyed so that new institutions can replace them with more agreeable values [1].

Relevant highlights IMO:

> I mean, think of the term academic freedom, and then think of what these people have done to it. It’s gone. That entire thing was fake and is completely rotten. And these people are completely giving up the entire moral foundation of the system that’s been built for them, which by the way, is paid for virtually 100% by taxpayer money.

...

>the population at large is going to realize the corruption in their industry and it’s going to withdraw the funding.

...

>Okay, so let’s go through it. So the universities are funded by four primary sources of federal funding. The big one is a federal student loan program, which is in the many trillions of dollars at this point, and then only spiraling way faster than inflation. That’s number one. Number two is federal research funding, which is also very large. And you probably know that when a scientist at the university gets a research grant, the university rakes as much as 70% of the money for central uses. Number three is tax exemption at the operating level, which is based on the idea that these are nonprofit institutions as opposed to, let’s say, political institutions. And then number four is tax exemptions at the endowment level, which is the financial buffer that these places have. Anybody who’s been close to a university budget will basically see that what would happen if you withdrew those sources of federal taxpayer money, and then for the state schools, the state money, they all instantly go bankrupt. And then you could rebuild. Then you could rebuild.

...

>Suppose you and I want to start a new university, and we want to hire all the free thinking professors, and we want to have the place that fixes all this, practically speaking, we can’t do it because we can’t get access to that money.

...

>Charlie Munger actually had the best comment, this great investor, Charlie Munger has great comment. He was once asked, it’s like General Electric was going through all these challenges, and he was asked at a Q&A. It said, “How would you fix the culture at General Electric?” And he said, “Fix the culture at General Electric?” He said, “I couldn’t even fix the culture at a restaurant.” It’s insane, like obviously you can’t do it. Nobody in business thinks you can do that, it’s impossible. Now look, having said all that, I should also express this because I have a lot of friends who work at these places and are involved in various attempts to fix these. I hope that I’m wrong, I would love to be wrong, I would love for the underpants gnome step two to be something clear and straightforward that they can figure out how to do. I would love to fix it, I’d love to see them come back to their spoken principles, I think that’d be great, I’d love to see the professors with tenure get bravery, it would be fantastic

https://lexfridman.com/marc-andreessen-2-transcript/

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private universities, yes. Public colleges can receive the funding that would've otherwise gone to private colleges.

This seems a dumb way to allocate Federal research funds. We, the taxpayers, should not choose the best university for these projects, but limit ourselves to only private universities? Is this what people mean by DEI? That we use some criteria other than merit when allocating resources?

You’re misunderstanding - I’m saying it should be only going to public universities, not private.

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#85

Private colleges shouldn't be taking public money to begin with. Hopefully this ends with colleges having their (private college) tax exempt status revoked. Anyone who's been to Massachusetts knows how much real estate Harvard (and MIT, and BU, and Boston College, etc, etc.) owns. Why should they be tax exempt? End it now. Also, Trump's demands are silly and not even internally consistent.

End what? The government paying for research? I think that's a foolish idea.

Public Money going to private schools.

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#87
post #63

I think Scott's take here is fair because he acknowledges that most of the Ivy League did (and largely still does) have huge problems with adequately protecting Jewish students and perspectives, and more broadly, intellectual viewpoint diversity of any kind. And prior administrations did push regulatory and funding requirements and policies to support DEI and other hot point issues to an extent that was clearly agend…

> and is, instead, doing the same things "the other guys" did, just in the opposite direction. I don't think this is a fair characterization at all. Below, is copied from an NYT article [ https://archive.ph/ONxlX ]. Which of these did previous administrations do? === Some of the actions that the Trump administration demanded of Harvard were: * Conducting plagiarism checks on all current and prospective faculty member…

I've edited my post to add "doing the same things (and much worse)" which I should have put originally because I think it's true that the current administration is coming up with "all-new and improved" ways to bring pressure.

To be fair, a defender of the current administration (which I'm obviously not) might point out that "the other guy" administration was pushing an agenda bias on people who broadly agreed with the direction, while the current administration is pushing against strong bias the other direction - so more pressure is justified. While I agree any moves away from the preferred extreme and back toward the middle (and beyond), will meet with resistance from the institution's partisan majority and encounter 'malicious compliance' at best, that still doesn't morally justify bias in the other direction. Eventually, someone needs to have the courage to step up and not play the "Retaliate and Escalate" move on their turn with Power Boost (that's the two years where one party holds control of the executive and congress, which, lately, each side gets approximately every 6-8 years (there is one "Lose Turn" card in the deck but it's rare).

Missing in all that is, of course, the best long-term strategy would be to reverse only to a relatively neutral position and take the moral high-ground of saying that the government shouldn't push agenda positions and try to get the center to rally around you. Basically, really try to be neutral. Protect all viewpoints equally and favor none. No negative biases but also no affirmative action. Previous jihads against one direction don't justify crusades in response. That kind of reasoning was how we got 'affirmative action' in response to OG institutional racism. Now the current administration is justifying going to extremes with the same flawed reasoning of "correcting sins of the past".

For example, "shutting down any programming related to diversity, equity and inclusion" is just as wrong as demanding all departments force everyone to sign DEI pledges or that all students take a DEI class. To me, the real enemy here is government compelling private universities to "always do" or "never do" (forbid or require) any specific thing about any of these culture war topics.

At some point, we need to learn from and remember the past but otherwise decide it's time to let the past go. The current moment would have been a good time to plant a bold flag for no systemic institutional biases for or against any culture war agenda-driven "correction". But the current administration seems set on continuing what looks to be a never-ending culture war. Perhaps the most stupid thing is both sides continue to act like anything which can be accomplished by presidential fiat can't just as easily be undone by presidential fiat. Day one of the next Democrat administration they'll undo most of this and when they get their next turn with Power Boost they'll undo all of it. If the past is any measure, they'll also use all the "New and Improved" methods this administration is coming up with to push in the other direction (just as Trump is using every technique for presidential expansion Obama 'innovated').

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#88
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hopefully this ends with colleges having their tax exempt status revoked. Only if we do churches at the same time.

What do churches have to do with this article or my comment? Do churches receive billions of funding from the government?

> What do churches have to do with this article or my comment?

I quoted "Hopefully this ends with colleges having their tax exempt status revoked." because I think the US would be better off if churches were not tax exempt.

There are good arguments that we would better off if no non-profits were tax exempt and charitable donations weren't tax deductible.

> Do churches receive billions of funding from the government?

I don't think so.

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#89

"...once the government did take away funding and present its ultimatum—completely outside the process specified in Title VI law—Columbia’s administration quickly agreed to everything asked, to howls of outrage from the left-leaning faculty. Yet despite its total capitulation, the government has continued to hold Columbia’s medical research and other science funding hostage, while inventing a never-ending list of add…

[edit] Don't kill the messenger... I think the clearest and most cogent articulation I have seen was given by Marc Andreesen back in January, in a 4 hour podcast on Trump policy with Lex Friedman, starting at 58 min. His position was that University reform is not possible. Instead, the institutions themselves need to be destroyed so that new institutions can replace them with more agreeable values [1]. Relevant highl…

End result: substantially reduced student immigration along with native brain drain out of the US. Other countries reap the benefits of our best and brightest. New institutions fail to attract cutting-edge researchers and become ideology-driven vocational schools in the Soviet tradition.

Also, Marc Andreesen is a repugnant neoreactionary toady.

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#90
Recent and related:

Harvard's response to federal government letter demanding changes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43684536 - April 2025 (1215 comments)

Federal Government's letter to Harvard demanding changes [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43684386 - April 2025 (92 comments)

Post reply on HN