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Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

seattletimes.com

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Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#81

Post by fifilura »

TriangleEdge wrote: post #54

I live in Seattle now, am married, and have an infant. I find Seattle not friendly towards families at all. The going rate for a daycare here is 3.5k per month for an infant. My wife and I are both ~7%ers? individually and we can barely afford our home (a tall skinny townhouse with no yard) and the cost of 1 baby. Having a family is hard here... Also, I don't find Seattle safe for infants and toddlers, or anybody rea…

As a comparison, full time daycare in Sweden is $100/month for everyone.

I think this is one important reason that marriage is not as common, since the society is aligned towards that is should be possible to manage on your own if you absolutely need to.

I can't find a proper number but anecdotally I think maybe 50% of first time parents are married in Sweden.

And yes obviously this is paid by higher taxes, but seen an an investment to keep the demography (reasonably) sane.

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#82

Post by scarface_74 »

Aurornis wrote: post #76
jb1991 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s unfortunate. And it’s a uniquely American mindset. Long-term relationships in Europe for example do not require marriage in the same way that Americans do. People get married in the states because of the law, people get married in other countries because they just want to get married for emotional or spiritual reasons.

I cannot think of anyone here in the United States who got married for legal benefits, other than some couples working on citizenship issues for one partner without citizenship. I think your Americans-vs-Europeans argument is greatly exaggerated if not outright false.

Raises hand.

I got engaged to my wife with the expectation of us getting married 6 months later. We pulled our marriage forward 6 months because I got laid off from my job and needed to get on her insurance. I had a contract literally the next week after getting laid off and could have paid for COBRA out of pocket. But it was her idea to go to the courthouse

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#83

Post by renewiltord »

TriangleEdge wrote: post #54

I live in Seattle now, am married, and have an infant. I find Seattle not friendly towards families at all. The going rate for a daycare here is 3.5k per month for an infant. My wife and I are both ~7%ers? individually and we can barely afford our home (a tall skinny townhouse with no yard) and the cost of 1 baby. Having a family is hard here... Also, I don't find Seattle safe for infants and toddlers, or anybody rea…

People are such predictably complainers. When Google provided lots of benefits including daycare it was because “they want you to live there and have no life outside” and “the next step is company scrip”.

Now, it’s because they want you to give up everything.

Man, you can make millions working for big tech. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own self.

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#84

Post by kgermino »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #71
jb1991 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s unfortunate. And it’s a uniquely American mindset. Long-term relationships in Europe for example do not require marriage in the same way that Americans do. People get married in the states because of the law, people get married in other countries because they just want to get married for emotional or spiritual reasons.

> People get married in the states because of the law That's at least vastly overstated, and probably just false. I'm an American living in a major urban center and I don't think I know anybody for whom the decision to get married was influenced by legal considerations to any significant degree.

I do know a fair number of people who got married for health insurance (not really legal reasons, but maybe adjacent?).

Though very few of those cases we’re people who otherwise would not have gotten married, rather people who got a legal marriage very quickly to access health, benefits then took the normal amount of time for the ceremonial wedding

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#86

Post by edg5000 »

pfdietz wrote: post #50
inglor_cz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also "The Global Collapse of Coupling and Fertility" https://www.ggd.world/p/the-global-collapse-of-coupling-and I wonder if the ultimate cost (in lives never born) of technologies like smartphones and Tinder will be. If a significant part of the entire youth cohort never learns to interact with the other sex in the real world, we might be looking at a pandemics of loneliness - and at subsequent global birth defi…

I've come to a conclusion that the solution may be somewhat radical. If coupling is reduced, it should become the norm for women to have and raise children alone, or at least without a male partner. This increases the burden on women, so at the same time the number of children they must support would have to decrease. This could be achieved technologically, by filtering sperm to remove Y chromosome carrying gametes.…

Interesting point. Probably there are many historical case studies of populations with unbalanced sex-ratios. There are many reasons for it to go out of balance. Recent/currently China and Russia are examples. According to wikipedia; the ratio of boys to girls is 1.3:1 in some rural areas in China.

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#87

Post by delichon »

eduction wrote: post #79
delichon wrote: post #49

My brother was a never-married single in Seattle, and it was the cause of his death at the start of the pandemic. He was terminally lonely and without purpose and suicided. But he was a tremendously loyal person. If he was able to make a connection and form a family, he would have been full of purpose. Instead he lived quietly in a small house in a quiet neighborhood, and after he died none of his neighbors could eve…

Hey I’m really sorry for your loss. And sorry he didn’t find that connection. Do you think a different city would have been better for him? I only visited Seattle once and I know this is a cliched thought but I do wonder if the weather and sprawl undermine people’s chances to make connections. Vs a more dense or at least sunny city.

He was much more active and open when he lived in Santa Cruz. But then, also younger. I don't know what he saw in the damp cold gray north.

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#88

Post by trollbridge »

api wrote: post #29

Seattle, meaning the city, right? When people get married and think about settling down and maybe having kids, they usually leave high cost of living cities. They want stability, something they can own or rent long term, and usually more space, especially if kids are coming. Sometimes they move to the suburbs, sometimes across the country. The only people who stay tend to be rich people who can actually afford to get…

Of course, this pattern of human settlement is silly. Cities used to be hospitable to families, often with multiple generations living in them. Instead of needing a daycare and lots of miles in a car, grandparents and relatives were nearby to help with young children.

On the other hand, forcing people outside of the city to afford a family means more GDP from building roads, selling tyres, replacing cars, petrol sales, oil refining…

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#89

Post by trollbridge »

ghaff wrote: post #51
api wrote: post #29

Seattle, meaning the city, right? When people get married and think about settling down and maybe having kids, they usually leave high cost of living cities. They want stability, something they can own or rent long term, and usually more space, especially if kids are coming. Sometimes they move to the suburbs, sometimes across the country. The only people who stay tend to be rich people who can actually afford to get…

People, especially couples, moving out of cities as they get older has been a thing for decades. You’d think young urbanites would welcome this.

It means heavy car dependence unless you expect people to change careers when they have a family. Hence the modern American cityscape, with most the population spread out amongst suburbs.

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#90

Post by pfdietz »

edg5000 wrote: post #86
pfdietz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've come to a conclusion that the solution may be somewhat radical. If coupling is reduced, it should become the norm for women to have and raise children alone, or at least without a male partner. This increases the burden on women, so at the same time the number of children they must support would have to decrease. This could be achieved technologically, by filtering sperm to remove Y chromosome carrying gametes.…

Interesting point. Probably there are many historical case studies of populations with unbalanced sex-ratios. There are many reasons for it to go out of balance. Recent/currently China and Russia are examples. According to wikipedia; the ratio of boys to girls is 1.3:1 in some rural areas in China.

Which makes the situation in China even worse than the TFR would indicate.
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