BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of • Hacker News Board

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#81

Post by prox » Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 9:51 AM UTC

Lammy wrote: post #15

I hope it will still be possible to receive a BPS timing signal privately and anonymously with ATSC 3 like one can with GPS. ATSC 3 has the Dedicated Return Channel because marketers “““need””” to spy on every-fucking-thing we do: https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/A323-2024-04... “Conventional linear TV services alone (albeit ultra-high-definition) may not be sufficient to sustain the terrestrial broadc…

I just used bullshit remover : “Conventional TV ain't enough. Need new tech to make more money. Gotta maximize that ROI, yo.”

So you got that right.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#82

Post by timthorn » Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 10:10 AM UTC

arghwhat wrote: post #75

m463 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like 5G, which provides unexpected connectivity for IoT devices. Search for "miot" or "mmtc"

There is zero relation there. OP is falling about the spec incorporating usage monitoring. 5G was designed with a very public and explicit goal for IoT of allowing many more devices to connect than 4G could, and more conveniently. Nothing unexpected or user-harming, and nothing new as 4G was already used for IoT.

When EE launched 5G in the UK, they took out a full page ad with a massive headline saying simply "A real crowd pleaser"

One of the best adverts for a long time - if you knew about the technical advantages of 5G, it had a real double meaning.

If you knew 90s British dance music, it had a further humourous double meaning promoting the telco (an oblique reference to The Shamen's Ebenezer Goode)

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#83

Post by swores » Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 10:13 AM UTC

Lammy wrote: post #15

I hope it will still be possible to receive a BPS timing signal privately and anonymously with ATSC 3 like one can with GPS. ATSC 3 has the Dedicated Return Channel because marketers “““need””” to spy on every-fucking-thing we do: https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/A323-2024-04... “Conventional linear TV services alone (albeit ultra-high-definition) may not be sufficient to sustain the terrestrial broadc…

> "That's a lot of fancy words to say ‘we're doing this because it makes us more money’ lol"

You say that as if they're using lots of words to obfuscate that fact, but the quote you pasted has them saying entirely directly "maximize the network Return on Investment", which is just normal business terminology (and only one word more than your "it makes us more money"!)

Obviously this has no impact on whether that's a good or bad thing, I'm just pointing out that they weren't using a lot of words to hide that fact.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#84

Post by actionfromafar » Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 10:24 AM UTC

timthorn wrote: post #82

arghwhat wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is zero relation there. OP is falling about the spec incorporating usage monitoring. 5G was designed with a very public and explicit goal for IoT of allowing many more devices to connect than 4G could, and more conveniently. Nothing unexpected or user-harming, and nothing new as 4G was already used for IoT.

When EE launched 5G in the UK, they took out a full page ad with a massive headline saying simply "A real crowd pleaser" One of the best adverts for a long time - if you knew about the technical advantages of 5G, it had a real double meaning. If you knew 90s British dance music, it had a further humourous double meaning promoting the telco (an oblique reference to The Shamen's Ebenezer Goode)

NEVER underestimate the layered entendre game in the UK.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#85

Post by threemux » Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 10:41 AM UTC

geerlingguy wrote: post #18

Lammy wrote: post #15

I hope it will still be possible to receive a BPS timing signal privately and anonymously with ATSC 3 like one can with GPS. ATSC 3 has the Dedicated Return Channel because marketers “““need””” to spy on every-fucking-thing we do: https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/A323-2024-04... “Conventional linear TV services alone (albeit ultra-high-definition) may not be sufficient to sustain the terrestrial broadc…

Yeah... and that's one of the most innocuous new "features" in ATSC 3.0. Almost everything I've seen (besides BPS, and maybe HDR if you're one of the few who has a really good home theater setup) is a benefit for broadcasters and advertisers, and a bit worse for consumers (especially requiring new hardware/decoders... and sometimes persistent Internet connections!).

You're not wrong, but don't forget about the upgraded modulation and coding schemes. That might actually help consumers on the edge of coverage receive broadcasts and will definitely be an improvement over creaky 8vsb

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#86

Post by Calwestjobs » Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 10:57 AM UTC

publicola1990 wrote: post #10

While this is is interesting, the "nobody's heard of" phrase is rather condescending and such phrases leave a bad taste in the mind.

yes saying jeff geerling is the nobody who never heard of that thing is offensive to me. XD

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#87

Post by xattt » Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 10:58 AM UTC

Lammy wrote: post #15

I hope it will still be possible to receive a BPS timing signal privately and anonymously with ATSC 3 like one can with GPS. ATSC 3 has the Dedicated Return Channel because marketers “““need””” to spy on every-fucking-thing we do: https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/A323-2024-04... “Conventional linear TV services alone (albeit ultra-high-definition) may not be sufficient to sustain the terrestrial broadc…

I just realized the BPS is there to augment the return channel. Not only can the advertiser figure out what you are watching, but also where you are located.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#88

Post by throw0101d » Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 11:24 AM UTC

Lammy wrote: post #15

I hope it will still be possible to receive a BPS timing signal privately and anonymously with ATSC 3 like one can with GPS. ATSC 3 has the Dedicated Return Channel because marketers “““need””” to spy on every-fucking-thing we do: https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/A323-2024-04... “Conventional linear TV services alone (albeit ultra-high-definition) may not be sufficient to sustain the terrestrial broadc…

For anyone who wants to know about ATSC 3.0 the Antenna Man channel covers over the air (OTA) stuff in the US:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw3W7MoafR4

* https://www.youtube.com/@AntennaMan/videos

ATSC 3.0 allows for DRM/encryption as the parent comment mentions.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#89

Post by bob1029 » Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 11:30 AM UTC

typewithrhythm wrote: post #45

lxgr wrote: post #21

High-power, and ideally authenticated, alternatives to space-based GNSS are desperately needed, given the sharp uptick in jamming and spoofing incidents in many places. In a true "end of history" moment, the US and other NATO members discontinued both of their ground-based systems (which are inherently harder to jam due to their much higher transmission power, since transmitters are not power limited) – Omega in the…

You can't really beat a jammer, sure you can compete for power output, but there is no real stopping it. Aircraft and military positioning concepts are evolving towards more map and dead reckoning, lessening the benefit of GPS jamming.

You can defeat a jammer if you are willing to use more spectrum than your opponent and/or can sacrifice information rate.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#90

Post by wkat4242 » Sun, Apr 13, 2025, 11:32 AM UTC

arghwhat wrote: post #75

m463 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like 5G, which provides unexpected connectivity for IoT devices. Search for "miot" or "mmtc"

There is zero relation there. OP is falling about the spec incorporating usage monitoring. 5G was designed with a very public and explicit goal for IoT of allowing many more devices to connect than 4G could, and more conveniently. Nothing unexpected or user-harming, and nothing new as 4G was already used for IoT.

Yeah at my work we still get a lot of the old 5G propaganda. "It's groundbreaking for IoT". Beh screw that it's just the successor to 4G. A bit faster and more flexible. The rest is just stupid marketing. There's nothing it can do that 4G couldn't, only slightly less efficiently.

The one thing that was really new was support for super high density environments with mmWave. That would have been ideal for stadiums etc. With regular tech the networks get overwhelmed. mmWave offers more cells in a tiny area. But here in Europe that's been given up for good. Phones don't even come with mmWave antennas anymore.