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Google is winning on every AI front

thealgorithmicbridge.com

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Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#321

Post by codethief »

celdon25 wrote: post #257
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming Google's play here is to bleed its competitors of money and raise prices when they're gone. Building top-tier models is extremely expensive and will probably remain so. Even companies that do it "on the cheap," like DeepSeek, pay tens of millions to train a single model, and total expenditures for infrastructure and salaries are estimated to surpass $1 billion. This market has an extremely high cost of e…

They’ll also need a fleet of humanoid robots eventually to compete with Elon’s physical world data collection plans.

Too bad they sold Boston Dynamics :)

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#322

Post by JKCalhoun »

gcanyon wrote: post #317

Several people have suggested that LLMs might end up ad-supported. I'll point out that "ad supported" might be incredibly subtle/insidious when applied to LLMs: An LLM-based "adsense" could: 1. Maintain a list of sponsors looking to buy ads 2. Maintain a profile of users/ad targets 3. Monitor all inputs/outputs 4. Insert "recommendations" (ads) smoothly/imperceptibly in the course of normal conversation No one would…

You ask two different corporate LLMs and compare answers.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#323

Post by wccrawford »

gcanyon wrote: post #317

Several people have suggested that LLMs might end up ad-supported. I'll point out that "ad supported" might be incredibly subtle/insidious when applied to LLMs: An LLM-based "adsense" could: 1. Maintain a list of sponsors looking to buy ads 2. Maintain a profile of users/ad targets 3. Monitor all inputs/outputs 4. Insert "recommendations" (ads) smoothly/imperceptibly in the course of normal conversation No one would…

Yeah, ad-supported LLMs would be incredibly bad.

But "free" is a magic word in our brains, and I'm 100% sure that many, many people will choose it over paying for it to be uncorrupted by ads.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#324

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

mike_hearn wrote: post #227
imiric wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think soon people expect this service to be provided for free and ads would become the main option to make money out of chatbots. I also think adtech corrupting AI as well is inevitable, but I dread for that future. Chatbots are much more personal than websites, and users are expected to give them deeply personal data. Their output containing ads would be far more effective at psychological manipulation than trad…

You're assuming ads would be subtly worked into the answers. There's no reason it has to be done that way. You can also have a classic text ads system that's matching on the contents of the discussions, or which triggers only for clearly commercial queries "chatgpt I want to eat out tonight, recommend me somewhere", and which emits visually distinct ads. Most advertisers wouldn't want LLMs to make fake recommendation…

There are lots of ways that advertising could be tied to personal interests gleaned by having access to someone's ChatBot history. You wouldn't necessarily need to integrate advertisements into the ChatBot itself - just use it as a data gathering mechanism to learn more about the user so that you can sell that data and/or use it to serve targetted advertisements elsewhere.

I think a big commercial opportunity for ChatBots (as was originally intended for Siri, when Apple acquired it from SRI) is business referral fees - people ask for restaurant, hotel etc recommendations and/or bookings and providers pay for business generated this way.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#325

Post by acheron »

remoquete wrote: post #5

I was a loyal Claude user until I decided to try Gemini 2.5. "After all", I thought, "I already use a Pixel phone, so it's integrated with Android. And with Google Drive. And I can get it through my Google One subscription." And now that I'm on it, I don't think I'm going back. Google did it again.

Is this an example of how to integrate ads into an AI response?

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#326

Post by wccrawford »

arcanemachiner wrote: post #170
jofzar wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to seriously disagree on it for the "assistant" part. It is so terrible vs Google assistant. There have been two really bad experiences that I had which boggled my mind. These are transcribed because these were so bad I took a screenshot. Example 1: "set an alarm for 15 minutes" > Gemini sets the alarm for 1:15pm "I want that to be 50 minutes" > "you can change the duration of alarms in the clock app" Example…

Try setting a "timer" for 15 minutes instead of an "alarm". Not sure if this is a regional dialect thing, but in North America, a timer has a duration, but an alarm is set for a specific time, which would possibly explain the confusion.

While I agree it'd let the user use the system, the system should do the right thing for either situation, or at least abort and say it doesn't understand. That's the problem with LLMs so far. They can't admit they don't understand.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#327

Post by mirekrusin »

cheema33 wrote: post #223
mirekrusin wrote: post #21

[flagged]

Elon is not in it to counterbalance. But to grab the attention/money/power for himself.

Why going with non-for-profit then?

In the early interviews he was saying precisely that - that google has effective monopoly in ai and it will be extremely difficult to reach anything close to capacity they have.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#328

Post by snackernews »

fpoling wrote: post #226
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's be a >$10bn business already. But not profitable yet.

Opera browser was not profitable for like 15 years and still became rather profitable eventually to make an attractive target to purchase by external investors. And even if not bough it would still made nice profit eventually for the original investors.

Opera had zero marginal costs. OpenAI doesn’t.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#329

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

It's always seemed to me that AI is going to be a commodity business - it's pretty clear that any company with enough money can compete, and it seems that current LLM-based AI is levelling off in terms of capability, with the new focus being on building layers of services on top of that (e.g. deep research agents).

In a commodity business cost is key, and Google with their N'th generation home grown TPUs and AI-optimized datacenters have a big advantage over anyone paying NVIDIA markups for accelerators or without this level of vertical integration.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#330

Post by kcatskcolbdi »

behnamoh wrote: post #275
fpoling wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opera browser was not profitable for like 15 years and still became rather profitable eventually to make an attractive target to purchase by external investors. And even if not bough it would still made nice profit eventually for the original investors.

You can't burn money in AI for 15 years on the off chance that it’ll pay off.

It seems like most people are on the road to doing exactly this.
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