Google is winning on every AI front • Hacker News Board

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#241

Post by rat87 » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:26 AM UTC

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #68

levocardia wrote: post #51

Google is winning on every front except... marketing (Google has a chatbot?), trust (who knew the founding fathers were so diverse?), safety (where's the 2.5 Pro model card?), market share (fully one in ten internet users on the planet are weekly ChatGPT users), and, well, vibes (who's rooting for big G, exactly?). But I will admit, Gemini Pro 2.5 is a legit good model. So, hats off for that.

Google is also terribly paranoid of the LLM saying anything controversial. If you want a summary of some hot topic article you might not have the time to read, Gemini will straight up refuse to answer. ChatGPT and Grok don't mind at all.

Seems like a feature. Last thing we need is a bunch of people willing to take AI at it's word making up shit about controversial topics. I'd say redirecting to good or prestigious source is probably the best you can do

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#242

Post by thijson » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:26 AM UTC

falcor84 wrote: post #172

ff4 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google offering Gemini 2.5 Pro for free, enough to ditch OpenAI, reminds me of an old tactic. Microsoft gained control in the '90s by bundling Internet Explorer with Windows for free, undercutting Netscape’s browser. This leveraged Windows’ dominance to make Explorer the default choice, sidelining competitors and capturing the browser market. By 1998, Netscape’s share plummeted, and Microsoft controlled access to the…

The joke's on them, because I don't have any loyalty to an LLM provider. There's very close to zero switching costs, both on the consumer front and the API front; no real distinguishing features and no network effects; just whoever has the best model at this point in time.

The strategy worked, Netscape is no more. Eventually Google did the same to Microsoft though. I wonder if any lessons can be taken from the browser wars to how things will play out with AI models.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#243

Post by karel-3d » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:27 AM UTC

Please explain to me like I am stupid.

If I want to use OpenAI models, I download ChatGPT app.

What do I need to do to use Google's model? They have so mamy things called Gemini... I genuinely have no clue

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#244

Post by apwell23 » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:27 AM UTC

codelord wrote: post #31

As an Ex-OpenAI employee I agree with this. Most of the top ML talent at OpenAI already have left to either do their own thing or join other startups. A few are still there but I doubt if they'll be around in a year. The main successful product from OpenAI is the ChatGPT app, but there's a limit on how much you can charge people for subscription fees. I think soon people expect this service to be provided for free an…

> And don't let me get started with Sam Altman.

would love to hear more about this.

I made a post asking more about sam altman last year after hearing paul graham quote call him 'micheal jordan of listening'

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41034829

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#245

Post by rat87 » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:27 AM UTC

rahidz wrote: post #208

jsemrau wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Google is also terribly paranoid of the LLM saying anything controversial. When did this start? Serious question. Of all the model providers my experience with Google's LLMs and Chatproducts were the worst in that dimension. Black Nazis, Eating stones, pizza with glue, etc I suppose we've all been there.

The ghost of Tay still haunts every AI company.

As it should. The potential for harm from LLMs is significant and they should be aware of that

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#246

Post by GrumpyNl » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:27 AM UTC

But, its Google, you will end up as the product.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#247

Post by uncomplexity_ » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:27 AM UTC

flexie wrote: post #120

Google will need a far better LLM than OpenAI to throw them decisively off the AI throne, just like another company would need a far better search engine than Google to throw them off the search throne. ChatGPT is now the 7th highest ranking website on the planet - does anyone outside the HN crowd know about Google AI Studio? Brands matter, and when regular people think AI, they think of OpenAI before they think Goog…

fair call but

1. unlike openai, google is already cashflow positive and doesnt need to raise any external funds

2. unlike openai, google already has the distribution figured out on both software and hardware

google is like an aircraft carrier that takes so fucking long to steer, but once done steering its entire armada will wipe you the fuck out (at least on the top 20% features for 80% use case)

anthropic already especialized for coding, openai seems to be steering towards intimacy, i guess they both got the memo that they need to specialize

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#248

Post by mjirv » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:28 AM UTC

jinay wrote: post #27

Lukman wrote: post #25

In my experience Claude 3.7 is far superior for coding than Gemini 2.5. I tried it in Cursor and I wanted it to work, as a recent ex-Googler. I repeatedly found it inferior. I think it’s still behind Claud 3.5 for coding. It would decide arbitrarily not to finish tasks and suggest that I do them. It made simple errors and failed to catch them.

Cursor is likely very tuned for Claude (prompts-wise and all) due to its dominance with 3.5 and now 3.7. Still, Gemini 2.5's tool calling has been pretty poor in my experience which Cursor heavily relies on.

Yep. Tool calling is terrible across all Gemini models. I’m not sure why, when the model itself is so good.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#249

Post by rat87 » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:30 AM UTC

silisili wrote: post #91

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is also terribly paranoid of the LLM saying anything controversial. If you want a summary of some hot topic article you might not have the time to read, Gemini will straight up refuse to answer. ChatGPT and Grok don't mind at all.

I noticed the same in Gemini. It would refuse to answer mundane questions that none but the most 'enlightened' could find an offensive twist to. This makes it rather unusable as a catch all goto resource, sadly. People are curious by nature. Refusing to answer their questions doesn't squash that, it leads them to potentially less trustworthy sources.

Trying to answer complex questions by making up shit in a confident voice is the worst option. Redirecting to a more trustworthy human source or multiple if needed is much better

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#250

Post by marcusb » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:30 AM UTC

alternatex wrote: post #232

squigz wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think OpenAI is more trustworthy than Google?

Simply put Google has had more time to develop a terrible data hoarding reputation.

Isn't hoarding data for training purposes a key part of OpenAI's business model? I get that they don't have a reputation for selling that data (or access to it) yet, but, what happens if/when funding dries up?

I definitely don't trust Google -- fool me once, and all -- but to the extent I'm going to "trust" any business with my data, I'd like to see a proven business model that isn't based on monetizing my information and is likely to continue to work (e.g., Apple). OpenAI doesn't have that.