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Google is winning on every AI front

thealgorithmicbridge.com

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Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#111

Post by ozgune »

I feel the article presents the data selectively in some places. Two examples:

* The article compares Gemini 2.5 Pro Experimental to DeepSeek-R1 in accuracy benchmarks. Then, when the comparison becomes about cost, it compares Gemini 2.0 Flash to DeepSeek-R1.

* In throughput numbers, DeepSeek-R1 is quoted at 24 tok/s. There are half a dozen providers, who give you easily 100+ tok/s and at scale.

There's no doubt that Gemini 2.5 Pro Experimental is a state of the art model. I just think it's very hard to win on every AI front these days.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#112

Post by gwd »

torginus wrote: post #96
antirez wrote: post #6

Gemini 2.5 pro is as powerful as everybody says. I still also use Claude Sonnet 3.7 only because the Gemini web UI has issues... (Imagine creating the best AI and then not allowing to attach Python or C files if not renamed .txt) but the way the model is better than anyone else is a "that's another league" experience. They have the biggest search engine and YouTube to leverage the power of the AI they are developing.…

Will there be a winner at all? Perhaps it's going to be like cars where there are dozens of world class manufacturers, or like Linux, where there's just one thing, but its free and impossible to monetize directly.

Linux works because network effects pressure everyone to upstream their changes. There's no such upstreaming possible with the open-weight models, and new sets of base weights can only be generated with millions of dollars of compute. Companies could conceivably collaborate on architectures and data sets, but with the amount of compute and data involved, only a handful of organizations would ever have the resources to be able to contribute.

Unlike Linux, which was started by a cranky Finn on his home computer, and can still be built and improved by anyone who can afford a Raspberry Pi.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#113

Post by blitzar »

eru wrote: post #63
Waterluvian wrote: post #41

> I felt Demis Hassabis was trustworthy in a way Sam Altman couldn't be—a true scientist, not a businessman Not that I think Demis is or is not trustworthy, but I think it’s a bit foolish to believe it would be allowed to matter.

I also don't see why scientists should be more trustworthy than business people.

I also don't see why doctors should be more trustworthy than used car sales people.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#114

Post by codelion »

codelord wrote: post #31

As an Ex-OpenAI employee I agree with this. Most of the top ML talent at OpenAI already have left to either do their own thing or join other startups. A few are still there but I doubt if they'll be around in a year. The main successful product from OpenAI is the ChatGPT app, but there's a limit on how much you can charge people for subscription fees. I think soon people expect this service to be provided for free an…

It's interesting to hear your perspective as a former OpenAI employee. The point about the sustainability of subscription fees for chatbots is definitely something worth considering. Many developers mention the challenge of balancing user expectations for free services with the costs of maintaining sophisticated AI models. I think the ad-supported model might become more prevalent, but it also comes with its own set of challenges regarding user privacy and experience. And I agree that Google's situation is complex – they have the resources, but also the expectations that come with being a public company.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#115

Post by nabla9 »

Most analysts don't differentiate between:

1) AI research as science and

2) Productization and engineering that science into something to sell.

While Google DeepMind focused on things that won Hassabis and Jumper Nobel prize in Chemistry, OpenAI took transformers architecture (Google researchers invented), built the first big model, and engineered it into a product.

Google has the best researchers, and does most research. When they finally chose to jump into the business and pull Hassabis and others from doing more important stuff to moneymaking, obviously they win.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#116

Post by RyanHamilton »

torginus wrote: post #96
antirez wrote: post #6

Gemini 2.5 pro is as powerful as everybody says. I still also use Claude Sonnet 3.7 only because the Gemini web UI has issues... (Imagine creating the best AI and then not allowing to attach Python or C files if not renamed .txt) but the way the model is better than anyone else is a "that's another league" experience. They have the biggest search engine and YouTube to leverage the power of the AI they are developing.…

Will there be a winner at all? Perhaps it's going to be like cars where there are dozens of world class manufacturers, or like Linux, where there's just one thing, but its free and impossible to monetize directly.

I thought for cars it was because certain countries decided at state level that car making was strategically their thing? That combined with fashion, meaning some percentage of people want different looking cars.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#117

Post by ddalex »

Lukman wrote: post #25

In my experience Claude 3.7 is far superior for coding than Gemini 2.5. I tried it in Cursor and I wanted it to work, as a recent ex-Googler. I repeatedly found it inferior. I think it’s still behind Claud 3.5 for coding. It would decide arbitrarily not to finish tasks and suggest that I do them. It made simple errors and failed to catch them.

Use Roo Code, Cursor is terrible

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#119

Post by relistan »

falcor84 wrote: post #98
codelord wrote: post #31

As an Ex-OpenAI employee I agree with this. Most of the top ML talent at OpenAI already have left to either do their own thing or join other startups. A few are still there but I doubt if they'll be around in a year. The main successful product from OpenAI is the ChatGPT app, but there's a limit on how much you can charge people for subscription fees. I think soon people expect this service to be provided for free an…

> Google can't as easily burn money I was actually surprised at Google's willingness to offer Gemini 2.5 Pro via AI Studio for free; having this was a significant contributor to my decision to cancel my OpenAI subscription.

This is 100% why they did it.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#120

Post by flexie »

Google will need a far better LLM than OpenAI to throw them decisively off the AI throne, just like another company would need a far better search engine than Google to throw them off the search throne. ChatGPT is now the 7th highest ranking website on the planet - does anyone outside the HN crowd know about Google AI Studio?

Brands matter, and when regular people think AI, they think of OpenAI before they think Google, even if Google has more AI talents and scores better on tests.

And isn't it good? Who wants a world where the same handful of companies dominate all tech?

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