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Google is winning on every AI front

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Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#231

Post by Philpax »

ZeroTalent wrote: post #179
p0w3n3d wrote: post #161

I recently had to check some legal thing - I gave the pdf with law to both - chatgpt and Gemini, and I was able to convince the Gemini that my interpretation is right, but chatgpt was constantly opposing me. Later I checked and found out that my interpretation was wrong, so I'd say that chatgpt was better and moreover it spared me some problems with "Polish IRS"

"Polish IRS" — I never heard that term before. Do you mean the gov revenue service of Poland or something else?

Yes, they'd be referring to the IRS equivalent for Poland.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#232

Post by alternatex »

squigz wrote: post #184
rzz3 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really hit the nail on the head with trust. Knowing the power of these AIs and how absolutely little I trust Google, I’d never tell trust Gemini with the things I’ll say to ChatGPT.

Why do you think OpenAI is more trustworthy than Google?

Simply put Google has had more time to develop a terrible data hoarding reputation.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#233

Post by killerstorm »

levocardia wrote: post #51

Google is winning on every front except... marketing (Google has a chatbot?), trust (who knew the founding fathers were so diverse?), safety (where's the 2.5 Pro model card?), market share (fully one in ten internet users on the planet are weekly ChatGPT users), and, well, vibes (who's rooting for big G, exactly?). But I will admit, Gemini Pro 2.5 is a legit good model. So, hats off for that.

Winning =/= won. The point is that they are improving on many fronts. If they were already recognized as THE leader there would be no point in making a HN post about it.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#234

Post by Philpax »

DisjointedHunt wrote: post #169

Not on cars, not in robotics, not in commercially deployed AI, not in enterprise investments in their cloud business. They've got immense potential, sure. But to say that they're winning is a bit far from reality. Right now, their Cloud AI offerings to the enterprise are technologically superior to anything else out there from AWS, but guess what? AWS seems to have significantly more %age sales growth in this space w…

I would say they're winning with Waymo: I took a fully autonomous taxi ride in the backseat in SF, and it just worked. No other company can currently do that, despite their promises and hype.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#235

Post by mike_hearn »

epolanski wrote: post #174
ramraj07 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you did there, but clearly being ex OpenAI isn't the intellectual or product flex it is: I and every other smart person I know still use ChatGPT (paid) because even now it's the best at what it does and we keep trying Google and Claude and keep coming back. They got and as of now continue to get things right for the most part. If you still aren'ĥt seeing it maybe you should introspect what you're mi…

I don't know your experience doesn't match mine. NotebookLM by Google is in a class of its own in the use case of "provide documents and ask a chat or questions about them" for personal use. ChatGPT and Claude are nowhere near. ChatGPT uses RAG so it "understands" less about the topic and sometimes hallucinate. When it comes to coding Claude 3.5/3.7 embedded in Cursor or stand alone kept giving better results in real…

Gemini with coding seems to be a bit of a mixed bag.

The article claims Gemini is acing the Aider Polyglot benchmark. At the moment this is the only benchmark that really matters to me because Aider is actually a useful tool and performance on that translates directly to real world impact, although Claude Code is even better. If you look closely, in fact Gemini is at the top only in the "percent correct" category but not "percent correct using the right edit format". Cost is marked as ? because it's not entirely available yet (I think?). Not emitting the correct edit format is pretty useless because it means the changes won't apply and the tool has to try again.

Claude in contrast almost never makes a mistake with emitting the right format. It's at 97%+ in the benchmark, in practice it's ~100% in my experience. This tracks: Claude is really good at following instructions. Gemini is about ~90%. This makes a big difference to how frustrating a tool is to use in practice.

They might get that fixed, but my experience has been that Google's models are consistently much more likely to refuse instructions for dumb reasons. Google is the company with by far the biggest purity spiral problem and it does show up in their output even when doing apparently ordinary tasks.

I'm also concerned by this event: https://news.sky.com/story/googles-ai-chatbot-gemini-tells-u...

Given how obsessed Google claimed to be with AI safety I expected an SRE style postmortem after that, and there was bupkis. An AI that can suffer a psychotic break out of nowhere like that is one I wouldn't trust unless it's behind a very strong sandbox and being supervised very closely, but none of the AI tools today offer much in the way of sandboxing.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#236

Post by mrshu »

jstummbillig wrote: post #163
antirez wrote: post #6

Gemini 2.5 pro is as powerful as everybody says. I still also use Claude Sonnet 3.7 only because the Gemini web UI has issues... (Imagine creating the best AI and then not allowing to attach Python or C files if not renamed .txt) but the way the model is better than anyone else is a "that's another league" experience. They have the biggest search engine and YouTube to leverage the power of the AI they are developing.…

I am not even sure how to use Gemini 2.5 pro ergonomically right now. Cursor and Windsurf both obviously have issues, probably optimized too much around Claude, but what else is there? Is everyone copy pasting into the Google AI studio or what?

One option would be https://geminicodes.co/ -- a CLI tool with Claude Code-like aesthetics.

It is a hobbyist weekend project though, the experience with Aider or ra-aid might be much better.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#237

Post by imiric »

jononor wrote: post #127
imiric wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think soon people expect this service to be provided for free and ads would become the main option to make money out of chatbots. I also think adtech corrupting AI as well is inevitable, but I dread for that future. Chatbots are much more personal than websites, and users are expected to give them deeply personal data. Their output containing ads would be far more effective at psychological manipulation than trad…

I agree with you. There is also a move toward "agents", where the AI can make decisions and take actions for you. It is very early days for that, but it looks ike it might come sooner than I had though. That opens up even more potential for influence on financial decisions (which is what adtech wants) - it could choose which things to buy for a given "need".

Hey, we could save them all the busywork, and just wire all our money to corporations...

But financial nightmare scenarios aside, I'm more concerned about the influence from private and government agencies. Advertising is propaganda that seeks to separate us from our money, but other forms of propaganda that influences how we think and act has much deeper sociopolitical effects. The instability we see today is largely the result of psyops conducted over decades across all media outlets, but once it becomes possible to influence something as personal as a chatbot, the situation will get even more insane. It's unthinkable that we're merrily building that future without seemingly any precautions in mind.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#238

Post by marcusb »

thunderbird120 wrote: post #10

This article doesn't mention TPUs anywhere. I don't think it's obvious for people outside of google's ecosystem just how extraordinarily good the JAX + TPU ecosystem is. Google several structural advantages over other major players, but the largest one is that they roll their own compute solution which is actually very mature and competitive. TPUs are extremely good at both training and inference[1] especially at sca…

From the article:

> I’m forgetting something. Oh, of course, Google is also a hardware company. With its left arm, Google is fighting Nvidia in the AI chip market (both to eliminate its former GPU dependence and to eventually sell its chips to other companies). How well are they doing? They just announced the 7th version of their TPU, Ironwood. The specifications are impressive. It’s a chip made for the AI era of inference, just like Nvidia Blackwell

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#239

Post by mjirv »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #122
sigmoid10 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't even say Gemini Pro 2.5 is the best model. Certainly not when you do multimodal or function calling, which is what actually matters in industry applications. Plain chatbots are nice, but I don't think they will decide who wins the race. Google is also no longer in the mindset to really innovate. You'll hear surprisingly similar POVs from ex-Googlers and ex-OpenAI guys. I'd actually say OpenAI still has an…

> Certainly not when you do multimodal or function calling Who is? (Genuine question, it's hard to keep up given how quickly the field moves.)

Claude 3.7 Sonnet for function calling, and it’s not particularly close in my experience.

Not sure about multimodal as it’s not what I work on.

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