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Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

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Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#231

Surprised to see the negativity in the comments - if executed well, this is exactly the sort of thing governments should be aiming to do: solving social coordination problems and funding with long-term horizons.

The money never goes to actually relevant or innovative projects, because there is a whole industry devoted to "proposal writing". Companies will literally bring dedicated teams together to sit in a room and think how they could possibly grift EU money, because they cannot meaningfully compete on the open market and need to fund 25-50% of their personnel costs through such programs. Think Siemens, Orange S.A., Techni…

There is a whole industry in Croatia specializing in EU money extraction. Hundreds of agencies writing proposals to get grants for their clients and taking their cut. Tons of those are grifts with money directly landing into people's pockets, seaside villas being bought, hotels being made. It's so blatant that politicians accuse each other for not extracting as much money as they’ve could. After decades of blatant stealing EPPO (European Public Prosecutors Office) got involved. When they go for small fish that’s fine, but when they start investigating government politicians they (government) take the case from them and those guys get a slap on the wrist. There are just so many cases that EPPO can do only a fraction of them. Terrible situation, and I don’t think it’ll change because EU doesn’t give too much of a care about a small country like that. And it’s not their money in a sense, so they care even less.

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applying for a grant is normally difficult. In Germany, it's outright hellish. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised.

Applying for a grant in the European Commission is a labyrinth of different websites each with their own need to register. Grant Specs are largely in PDFs or Word Documents that are attached to the call. And it takes at least 6-9 months from open to decision. I have applied to about 20 grants throughout 2024 and haven't heard anything back from a single one yet.

The websites certainly have their design quirks, as do the application forms (though you can avoid those traps by partnering with people who've done it before). But tbh a single document and 6 month turnaround for our Pathfinder bid was above average for grants we've won, and compares very favourably with our equity funding round.

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#235

Ministries cannot keep up with the velocity of free market / startup culture like SV. So I wouldn't exactly be bullish on this.

What kind of comparison is this? A government ministry is not a private enterprise, it has different goals and structures.

It's like saying a cargo ship can't keep up with a speed boat.

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#236

The upside is that this will actually provide lots of research funding to small companies. Think of it like the seed round from a VC, but instead of investing into new companies, they try to strategically invest into existing companies to boost future tax revenue. It'll probably be very German, meaning overly bureaucratic. But the basic idea of financing R&D in small companies to grow them more competitive seems legi…

Applying for a grant is normally difficult. In Germany, it's outright hellish. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised.

I'm CTO in a startup in Germany. We've applied for and gotten various grants. It's not a big deal. And there are agencies that can help with this. I know various people in different companies that benefit from this as well. There is money at the state level, at the federal level, and the European level that can be unlocked via grants.

Germany has got a well deserved reputation for its bureaucracy and lack of flexibility. We were dealing with the tax office at the same time we were dealing with grants. One part of the government trying to give us money, another taking it away. We had our first deal with not enough revenue to even pay ourselves. That was calculated as "profit". As a bootstrapped company, we got very close to emptying our accounts a few times. And stuff like this isn't helpful. But we survived and we're still around. Partially thanks to these grants.

I think this incoming government is saying the right things and looks like they are planning to do things that sound like they are good ideas. Making the process of founding a company easier, incentivizing R&D, etc. There's a lot of potential in this country in terms of companies that are very specialized and high tech, well educated people, etc. They are definitely over dependent on older companies that are a bit past their prime, e.g. in automotive.

Germany mainly needs to deal with it's risk averse bureaucracy and culture. People that want to take risk here need to move more freely and faster. It shouldn't take months to found a company. Or thousands of euros to deal with all the bureaucracy (which it does if you add it all up).

Germany tends to stifle innovation by bureaucracy, restrictive & complex rules, and a finance climate that actively discourages investment and taking risk. Especially foreign investment. If you look at a lot of big name scale ups in Germany, you'll find that they have headquarters in places like Dublin, London, or Amsterdam. There's a good reason for this: if you want foreign investors to invest, a Gmbh is simply a somewhat toxic legal construction. These companies are German in all but name. That's about more than just taxes.

That needs to change. I think people are well aware. Merz certainly seems to be. But bureaucracies have a way of pushing back and this country is run by bureaucrats, politicians, lawyers, notaries, etc. that all benefit financially from the system being the way it is. They actively resist change and insist how crucial they are to the whole thing. Everything they touch tends to get more complex and convoluted. My worry is that they'll just end up adding to the problem instead of solving it.

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#237
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont want the govt to fund any research funding. As a tax payer i did not vote this. I want to decide who i fund or not. It just means, my taxes will not go down. :/

That does not scale. We cannot ask every single citizen about every single decision. You want to decide on each funding. The next will want to decide on every tax law change. Government decides, and if majority of population thinks they’re doing a shit job and someone else can do a less shot job they get replaced after a couple of years. Otherwise it’s micromanagement hell.

I disagree. Lets say i own 100 percent of my money. Just that i have to write it down, makes me shiver, what we as people accept to happen.

Am i interested in progress? Of course. Am i not smart enough to see or think long term, most likely. Give me a robo advisor, that helps me distribute my money. Give me best practises. I do not need a bloated government and their politics and interest groups for a simple decision, what i do with MY money that I have earned by working. Govt is the middle management that everyone complains about. A black hole.

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#238

I agree that merging the technology division from the ministry of economic affairs (BMWK) to the new research ministry is a good step as both ministries have been large providers of funding. The BMBF funds DFG, as well as the large science organizations in Germany (Fhg, Mpg, ...), the BMWK has funded research which is closer to applications, of course looking to enable economic activity. I'm unsure why the ministry g…

> I'm also not yet sure what to think about splitting education and research. It goes against the Humboldtian Ideal, especially in the universitys both topics are connected.

According to the German constitution (Grundgesetz), schools and universities are (mainly) the responsibility of the individual German states, not the federal government.[1] (A hybrid is the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology that has a university branch under the supervision of the state of Baden-Württemberg and a research centre branch under federal supervision.) The educational tasks of the federal government therefore basically relate to extracurricular and non-university education, such as early childhood education or adult further education.

At the level of the individual states, higher education and research are generally combined in one ministry and school education in another.

[1] Actually the Grundgesetz states in Art. 30: "The exercise of state powers and the performance of state duties shall be a matter for the individual states (Länder), unless otherwise provided for or permitted by this Basic Law." The authority of the federal government in education policy is therefore derived from what is explicitly mentioned in various places in the Basic Law. A short overview what that involves can be found here: https://www.bundestag.de/resource/blob/416682/db04b405a48dbe... (PDF, 2009, in German).

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#239
post #202
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This couldn't be more incorrect. I document German bureaucracy for a living. The hardest part of my job is that every state, city, office and case worker applies the rules differently, making it really hard to predict a specific outcome. In most cases it plays in people's favour, unless the case worker is particularly grumpy and you happen to hit one of their pet peeves. I struggle to document the variance for Berlin…

I’m familiar with your site and appreciate it a lot, and I don’t dispute anything you said, but that does not contradict anything in my comment. Those people you mention who apply the rules differently everywhere are inflexible and unwilling to give leeway or look further then their own way. This is a cultural issue in my opinion and can explain most of excessive bureaucracy here. You’re also talking specifically abo…

My experience was a bit different. For example, the immigration office accepts almost all applications in the end (over 95% according to their stats). They make all sorts of exceptions in the applicants' favour. The Bürgeramt, the Ordnungsamt and the Arbeitsagentur are the same. They huff and puff and make an exception "just this time", every time. The inflexibility is an act, unless you're being difficult (from their point of view). Then you get the least charitable interpretation of their directives.

Against all expectations, German bureaucracy is very "vibes-based", specifically because it's full of humans. It's predictably unpredictable. You rarely get the downside of digitalisation where "computer says no", because a human is deciding your fate and can be convinced to give you leeway.

The bigger issue at least for me is speed. The uncertainty of human decisions is magnified by the weeks-long delays. A missing document is a big issue when bureaucracy has a 4-8 week ping. That is of course if the case worker doesn't shrug and give you what you want anyway.

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#240
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both can be true, and what you described is, in my opinion, one of the primary causes of insane bureaucracy in Germany. This inflexible mindset is what causes the relentless enforcement of bureaucracy and procedures in Germany, there is very little leeway here in terms of bending the rules, making exceptions, turning a blind eye. This cultural inflexibility, traditionalism and risk-aversion all ties together into a p…

This inflexible mindset is what causes the relentless enforcement of bureaucracy and procedures in Germany, there is very little leeway here in terms of bending the rules, making exceptions This. I have worked in a Germany university and in all the supporting administration, nobody wants to make choices or take responsibility. E.g. I had some blatant cases of plagiarism and when going to the examination office (where…

I've seen it described as "Germans are not efficient, they're methodical". There is a lot of truth to it, but Germans are also making all sorts of exceptions either for convenience or expediency, making the method unpredictable.
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