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Leaked data reveals Israeli govt campaign to remove pro-Palestine posts on Meta

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Re: Leaked data reveals Israeli govt campaign to remove pro-Palestine posts on Meta

#531

Post by sfx77 »

sfx77 wrote: post #517
Philpax wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, attacking civilians is bad. So what does it say about a nation when it kills at least fifty thousand? ( https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... )

Again, you are not differentiating between targeting and collateral damage. Hamas broke a ceasefire and targeted civilians. Israel went in to destroy Hamas with the unfortunate result of civilians dying as collateral damage. When you say 50k, there are several problems. For starters you are quoting the Gaza Health Ministry which is Hamas and is provably unreliable. On top of that about 40% of those are Hamas fighters…

Not at all, the ICC is a kangaroo court. They issued a warrant for Netanyahu and a dead Hamas leader. That is insane. Also have you seen the U.N.s resolution against Israel?! They have more resolutions against Israel than against the rest of the world combined! I can't explain that except for either some foreign interest funding them to condemn Israel in this way, possibly anti-semitism, or maybe the entire body was co-opted by malicious actors. Just as a point of comparison about how one sided and strange the criticism of Israel is, recently a mass grave was found in Syria with 100,000 dead in it. That's more than twice this entire war, plus they were NOT combatants. That's Bashar Al-Assad. To top it off he is also killed an additional 600,000 of his own citizens. The war in Yemen, largely perpetrated by the Houthis (another Iranian militia, much like Hamas, and Hizbollah) killed another 400,000 people. These are insane numbers and these are not defensive wars. Yet somehow Israel is worse? Iran has murdered who knows how many of their civilians since 1979, North Korea, Russia, but a tiny democracy in the middle east is the devil? It's complete bs. The Israel conflict is somehow popular, it's just anti -westernism coupled with support for socialism / communism for some odd reason, which is popular at the moment, mixed in with anti-semitism.. anti-zionism is the same thing btw. Zionism as described in modern political terms started around 1880, that's 145 years ago! There is no Zionism anymore. Also, it's a weird term. As I've mentioned basically all jews are "zionists" because they will all gravitate to "zion" which is a mountain in Jerusalem. It's the same as Muslims gravitating towards Mecca. If I was "anti-maccanism" it's the same as being anti-muslim.

Re: Leaked data reveals Israeli govt campaign to remove pro-Palestine posts on Meta

#532

Post by esalman »

ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #449
esalman wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're writing posts on Facebook, not dropping bomb on anyone. Relax.

To explain further. I can't imagine why anyone would post about Jews on my local NextDoor or FB group. It's just not a topic that comes up outside of Jewish community events, like holidays. There are certainly no Jewish community events in Bangladesh. If they are writing posts about Jews like were posted about Rohingya, then maybe it's not just "posts on Facebook". You are the one who seems to be uptight, bringing up…

Well, you insinuated that people in the local neighborhood groups are calling for violence against Jews just like Buddists called for massacre of rohingya people.

For a start, I don't outright deny that. Personally I haven't come across a lot, but there are different kinds of people and commentary on social media, so I won't be surprised if a fraction of them are indeed doing so.

Even if they do, Facebook is evidently maximizing resources to moderate calls for violence against Jews/Israel. Which I personally applaud. Palestine is a complex issue that cannot be fixed with violence. It's just that I'd appreciate if Facebook did the same level of moderation when Buddists in Myanmar were doing the same. Otherwise in plain and simple view it seems Facebook does not bother when victims are of certain group.

Remember that Bangladesh is a Muslim majority country (85%+). So naturally there is popular support in favor of Palestine and strong anti-Israel sentiments.

What's really happening is that people are organizing procession and demonstration in support of Gaza, and when they try to organize and communicate online on Facebook and other platforms about this specific issue, their posts are getting moderated out of existence.

Now if you ask whether should people organize in support/against either Palestine or Israel, that's a whole different issue and not what we are debating here.

Re: Leaked data reveals Israeli govt campaign to remove pro-Palestine posts on Meta

#533

Post by mmooss »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #24

I like to think we are in a better place than russia for instance with all its propaganda and jailed journalists, but then i see these kind of article come over and over.... Most of the people in the 'free world' goes on mainstream media, like facebook to get their news. These companies are enticed to 'suck up' to the government because at the end they are business, they need to be in good term with ruling class. you…

This post is oddly nonsensical ...

> mainstream media, like facebook

Facebook is in the 'mainstream media'? That's a first in my experience. 'Mainstream media' usually describes established journalism organizations such as CNN, Fox, the NY Times, the WSJ. Facebook is universally grouped with 'social media' in my experience.

> Most of the people in the 'free world' goes on mainstream media

In fact, most people go on social media. The 'mainstream media' is losing audience rapidly.

> you end up with most media complying with the official story pushed by government and friends

I'm a bit confused here. Facebook complying with ... which government? The Israeli government has very little power over Facebook - Israel is a tiny market.

Meanwhile, Trump has been calling the 'mainstream media', the 'enemy of the people' - because they constantly report what he doesn't like.

Since the November election, many have shockingly capitulated but many remain. The NYT, for example, publishes negative news and criticisms of Trump and Israel daily.

> The more i think about it, the less difference i see.

You haven't established much of anything. Much of the comment doesn't make sense. Where is the Russian NYT? Which American journalists are in jail?

Re: Leaked data reveals Israeli govt campaign to remove pro-Palestine posts on Meta

#534

Post by cscurmudgeon »

Braxton1980 wrote: post #457
aucisson_masque wrote: post #24

I like to think we are in a better place than russia for instance with all its propaganda and jailed journalists, but then i see these kind of article come over and over.... Most of the people in the 'free world' goes on mainstream media, like facebook to get their news. These companies are enticed to 'suck up' to the government because at the end they are business, they need to be in good term with ruling class. you…

>Another difference would be that you are allowed to express your opinion, whereas in russia you would be put to jail, that's true but only in a very limited way. Although not even close in number and punishment the US government is deporting people for speaking against Israel. I think we do have a much better system because we are aware of these cases, you can speak out about the issue, and our court system can rule…

If you are talking about Khalil, he didn't just speak against Israel, it seems like his role in an org which openly supported Hamas may have played a part but didn't matter legally. The legal issue was that he left out facts on his green card application.

I am 100% sure that support of terrorist orgs can invalidate your green card.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-administration-claims-palest...

> According to recent court filings, President Donald Trump's administration said Khalil failed to disclose when applying for his green card last year that his employment by the Syria Office at the British Embassy in Beirut went "beyond 2022" and that he was a "political affairs officer" for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees from June to November 2023.

> "Regardless of his allegations concerning political speech, Khalil withheld membership in certain organizations and failed to disclose continuing employment by the Syria Office in the British Embassy in Beirut when he submitted his adjustment of status application. It is black-letter law that misrepresentations in this context are not protected speech," the government said in the filing.

Most of these things are not black/white. We should wait for all the facts to come out.

Re: Leaked data reveals Israeli govt campaign to remove pro-Palestine posts on Meta

#535

Post by ebcode »

whatshisface wrote: post #473
Braxton1980 wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Another difference would be that you are allowed to express your opinion, whereas in russia you would be put to jail, that's true but only in a very limited way. Although not even close in number and punishment the US government is deporting people for speaking against Israel. I think we do have a much better system because we are aware of these cases, you can speak out about the issue, and our court system can rule…

You only feel safe to speak out against the violations of law if you feel safe from them.

No. I speak out, and I don't feel safe. It takes courage.

Re: Leaked data reveals Israeli govt campaign to remove pro-Palestine posts on Meta

#536

Post by mmooss »

NoTeslaThrow wrote: post #63
aucisson_masque wrote: post #24

I like to think we are in a better place than russia for instance with all its propaganda and jailed journalists, but then i see these kind of article come over and over.... Most of the people in the 'free world' goes on mainstream media, like facebook to get their news. These companies are enticed to 'suck up' to the government because at the end they are business, they need to be in good term with ruling class. you…

Indeed. The editorial boards of these newsrooms are often staffed with people who attended the same schools and classes as those running the country. The social circles of the two worlds are extremely closely linked. Of course, this means that the reporting isn't very good at addressing its blind spots–i.e., most of the news in the country, let alone the world, that isn't relevant to the ivy league coastal elites. An…

> The editorial boards of these newsrooms are often staffed with people who attended the same schools and classes as those running the country. The social circles of the two worlds are extremely closely linked.

This is a conspiracy theory - they are secretly conspiring. Do you have evidence of this conspiracy actually happening on any scale?

Many attended the same universities on all sides of politics and issues. The universities are big places that have been operating for generations. Ask someone who went to a university - do they know and agree with everyone else who went there? It's absurd.

> most of the news in the country, let alone the world, that isn't relevant to the ivy league coastal elites.

You need to do more than throw around stereotypes. Give us some evidence.

> I don't tend to put much weight in freedom of the press so long as that press is floating on the cream of society and asking the government permission to report on what they're doing.

Who asked permission?

Re: Leaked data reveals Israeli govt campaign to remove pro-Palestine posts on Meta

#537

Post by kurthr »

Braxton1980 wrote: post #457
aucisson_masque wrote: post #24

I like to think we are in a better place than russia for instance with all its propaganda and jailed journalists, but then i see these kind of article come over and over.... Most of the people in the 'free world' goes on mainstream media, like facebook to get their news. These companies are enticed to 'suck up' to the government because at the end they are business, they need to be in good term with ruling class. you…

>Another difference would be that you are allowed to express your opinion, whereas in russia you would be put to jail, that's true but only in a very limited way. Although not even close in number and punishment the US government is deporting people for speaking against Israel. I think we do have a much better system because we are aware of these cases, you can speak out about the issue, and our court system can rule…

Exactly, it's the "they're the same anyway", "both sides" equivalency that allows the buildup of antidemocratic de-politicization and apathy. This is one of the goals of the _there_is_no_truth_ radicalization that is fundamental to Russian political control

Re: Leaked data reveals Israeli govt campaign to remove pro-Palestine posts on Meta

#538

Post by yibg »

ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #504
yibg wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was already dead otherwise I would have downvoted it too. Why? Because the implication of your original post is the only reason that fb group would post about those topics is for bad reasons. Why can’t there just be a casual conversation about something that was all over the news?

In what context does your local neighborhood FB group raise Jews (or any other non-local ethnicity for that matter) as a topic of discussion?

I don't know, I'm not part of those groups. But my automatic assumption isn't they're a bunch of antisemites or hamas supporters.

Re: Leaked data reveals Israeli govt campaign to remove pro-Palestine posts on Meta

#539

Post by OhioMan2943 »

sfx77 wrote: post #531
sfx77 wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, you are not differentiating between targeting and collateral damage. Hamas broke a ceasefire and targeted civilians. Israel went in to destroy Hamas with the unfortunate result of civilians dying as collateral damage. When you say 50k, there are several problems. For starters you are quoting the Gaza Health Ministry which is Hamas and is provably unreliable. On top of that about 40% of those are Hamas fighters…

Not at all, the ICC is a kangaroo court. They issued a warrant for Netanyahu and a dead Hamas leader. That is insane. Also have you seen the U.N.s resolution against Israel?! They have more resolutions against Israel than against the rest of the world combined! I can't explain that except for either some foreign interest funding them to condemn Israel in this way, possibly anti-semitism, or maybe the entire body was…

Yes, these all are wars, conflicts and massacres that have already happened and we can do nothing about. The current atrocitiy against the palestinians needs to be stopped. I'll ask you again do you believe the side with the most innocent suffering deserves the most support.

PS. I am not on the "side" of israel or palestine, if Israel were to have these numbers and systemic colonialist oppression I would jump to supporting them and pushing for humanitarian support. I just recognise the moral reality of the situation. Me, and most people like me, are on the side of humanitarianism, because all lives are equal, and so are all deaths.

Re: Leaked data reveals Israeli govt campaign to remove pro-Palestine posts on Meta

#540

Post by YZF »

botanical wrote: post #502

If Apartheid South Africa could last just a little bit longer, they would still be an apartheid state like Israel is today. Western media is just as complicit in this genocide as the fascists in charge of the Israeli government. And media are self-censoring which is reprehensible. The idea of Hamas wouldn't exist if Gaza (and the West Bank) wasn't occupied by land, air and sea; their land stolen on a daily basis, and…

Palestinian violence predates the 1967 and 1948. Also Gaza wasn't occupied since Israel left it in 2005.

Here's is one example from 1954 when Israel did not control Gaza or the West Bank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%27ale_Akrabim_massacre

"The Ma'ale Akrabim massacre, known in English as the Scorpions Pass Massacre, was an attack on an Israeli passenger bus, carried out on 17 March 1954, in the middle of the day. Eleven passengers were shot dead by the attackers who ambushed and boarded the bus. One passenger died 32 years later of his injuries, in a state of paralysis and partial consciousness. Four passengers survived, two of whom had been injured by the gunmen."

Palestinians are largely in the reality they're in due to the violence.

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