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Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

economist.com

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Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#751

Post by matheusmoreira »

marcodiego wrote: post #14

I'm a Brazilian. Everything here can be paid through pix. It's very convenient, fast reliable and, for a country like ours where walking on the streets with money is a risk, safe. There's only one reason I don't use it: there's no FLOSS app (AFAIK) to use it. Something as common as the dominant payment system should not depend on proprietary software.

> There's only one reason I don't use it: there's no FLOSS app (AFAIK) to use it.

And there will never be one. Not too long ago I actually gave this a try. Tried to coordinate with my bank's managers and everything. I didn't even intend to publish the result, I just didn't want to use the bank's shitty apps anymore. Turns out that in order to touch the banking system you need an actual company with special permission from the central bank.

> Something as common as the dominant payment system should not depend on proprietary software.

Cryptocurrency is the only way to make that a reality. The sooner people accept this, the better.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#752

Post by matheusmoreira »

lvass wrote: post #197

We have a saying in Brazil that absolutely no part of our government works, except for our IRS. Pix is such a huge win for them. Brazil has a huge informal/illegal economy that employs more people than those who are lawfully employed (40M vs 39M). We have an effective tax plus legal compliance rate of around 60%, that really stifles down anyone attempting to open a legit business in an already harsh environment. Pix…

> Pix has not yet been used to crack down on the informal sector, but with sufficient motivation and some data analysis, it absolutely can be

It will. Every single Pix transaction is reported to the tax authorities. It's only a matter of time.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#753

Post by kaiwenwang »

alephnerd wrote: post #524
kaiwenwang wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello, the things you're talking about (previous comments, not just this) are interesting career-wise. If I studied Computer Science (long-term I do not see myself programming forever) and only have internships related in that area, how would you recommend getting into this field?

> If I studied Computer Science (long-term I do not see myself programming forever) and only have internships related in that area, how would you recommend getting into this field? Just keep studying CS. Climb up the ladder to Staff SWE, PM, or EM; and execute and lose hair from there. As Pastuer said, "fortune favors a prepared mind". Most hot thinkers today were hetrodox a couple years ago. You make more money rema…

Thanks for your insights. I had previously interviewed with some firms in the PwC KPMG Deloitte type of category, though the work and pay don't seem to be completely worth it based on what I've read.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#754

Post by decimalenough »

dewey wrote: post #649
decimalenough wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's now quite trivial to connect a foreign credit/debit card to Wepay, and it worked flawlessly on a recent trip. (This was very much not the case only a few years ago.)

It might have worked for you but it's still not trivial. There's many hoops to jump through still like random ID verifications, many banks not being supported to be linked, account locks that can only be unblocked by having a WeChat contact vouch for you etc.

This was the case when I jumped through those hoops in 2019, but it's much more straightforward now. Passport, phone number (doesn't have to Chinese) plus credit/debit card unlocks up to RMB 50,000/mo, with no fees for transactions under RMB 200.

https://www.china-briefing.com/news/wechat-enables-foreigner...

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#755

Post by carlosjobim »

Vilian wrote: post #749
carlosjobim wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was not Bolsonaro who was put in jail, it was his political opponent.

And he got out, using the same justice system, because of the irregularities of the arrest, not sure if it's an authoritarian indicative or just the justice system being terrible slow

Putting an elected president – current or former – in prison should never happen, in my opinion.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#756

Post by leonidasv »

extraduder_ire wrote: post #709
leonidasv wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UX is standardized by the Central Bank and they mandate a step showing the name of the person/company associated with that Pix key before you make the payment. So you can always double-check.

Does the format for the ID have a check digit in it? Like IBANs and credit card numbers can both be checked offline by an algorithm to tell you that you've made a typo. From my reading, the system seems like it's intended to be used with a connected device and scanned/copypasted rather than typed or read over the phone.

The CPF (persons) and CNPJ (companies) numbers has two check digits.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#757

Post by matheusmoreira »

forinti wrote: post #216

Brazil was in constant economic chaos in the 80s and 90s, so the banking system invested a lot in automation and communications. I actually think it took too long for Pix to be invented. The piping was all there. Somebody just had to have the idea. Even in the 80s you could easily transfer from any bank to any other bank.

All the way back in 1995, brazilian bank Bradesco launched internet banking software for the Sega Mega Drive. I wonder if it was the first banking app.

https://segaretro.org/TeleBradesco_Resid%C3%AAncia

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#758

Post by Tremeschin »

gytisgreitai wrote: post #737

Is there a tech blog of how Pix is built?

There's an OpenAPI specification in a repository [1] from the Central Bank of Brazil, which might give some insights and contains links to a lot of manuals. Information seems to be complete about the protocol, but implementations are often proprietary.

[1] https://github.com/bacen/pix-api

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#759

Post by irjustin »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #730
dguest wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Treasury is the machine you're looking for... In a sense, yes dollars are "destroyed" in that they leave that monetary system. So are you saying there's an procedure where the US treasury takes USD out of circulation, and the ECB introduces the equivalent in Euro, according to some official exchange rate? How do they set the exchange rate?

No, of course there isn't. The explanation is absolutely ridiculous. Go ask chatgpt, it will explain it quite well.

> The explanation is absolutely ridiculous.

You'll need to provide more constructive feedback. Or are you suggesting that it's not "destroyed" and that the origin country can freely transfer money without discounting its books?

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#760

Post by danielmarkbruce »

irjustin wrote: post #759
danielmarkbruce wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, of course there isn't. The explanation is absolutely ridiculous. Go ask chatgpt, it will explain it quite well.

> The explanation is absolutely ridiculous. You'll need to provide more constructive feedback. Or are you suggesting that it's not "destroyed" and that the origin country can freely transfer money without discounting its books?

There are so many problems with your explanation it's hard to know where to start. Just ask ChatGPT to explain it and go back and forth until it's clear.

Really, it's bad form to comment on something technical where you are just miles out of your depth.

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