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Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

economist.com

641–650 of 789 posts

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#641

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> How much do you trust your government with your money? If you’re not able to trust the government to not steal your money then I suspect you have bigger problems and should look to claim asylum elsewhere.

So every Canadian?

Canadian here, I trust my government with my money because I don't run or fund any criminal enterprises.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#642
post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pix isn't a CBDC. The deployment of SCT inst is mostly complete and Wero (EPI) was launched in 3 countries already. Things take a bit more time when you need to push standards and regulations to 11/27/36 countries. Overall banking and payments in the EU/EEA are pretty advanced and evolving at a decent pace given the market size and number of entities involved, the PSD is world-class.

but time is everything. Those are not consumer-facing solutions. Meanwhile everyone around me uses Revolut (a UK company)

Instant transfers and mobile wallets are very much customer facing. Revolut already supports the former and will probably add the latter at some point as it did with BLIK in Poland.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have bizarre logic here. For example, in a topic discussed about GPUs, someone would say that it's not possible to run databases on GPUs, so GPUs don't have any chance of succeeding. > How much do you trust your government with your money? Do you trust crypto companies? Mt. Gox, FTX, Bybit… Do you know that crypto companies must follow government rules, regulations, and laws? Russians were banned from using many…

They said cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance, the conversation is supposed to be about cryptocurrency technology, but you're talking about the gross financial companies that operate in cryptocurrency as if they ARE cryptocurrency. Not just one feature of its existence. Common conflation.

If we want to use technology in real world to solve real world issues, we need to consider all important non-technical things.

Nuclear Energy is great, but governments and international organizations want to control it because it is too dangerous. So, if we need to use Nuclear Energy, we must play by such rules.

Money is the same thing. Each government wants to control them, regardless of their form.

If someone wants cryptocurrencies to be widely adopted, there is no option but to give them to businesses and governments.

So, crypto would be regulated like usual money. Major blockchains have records for all transactions, which can be tracked and used by businesses and governments to implement more strict control over the whole world. Therefore, the more people use crypto, the less privacy they have.

The Internet and Web were designed to be anonymous, but cookies, IP addresses, data collection, ML/AI, IMEI, MAC, and the control of registration in ISPs and mobile operators have led us to a situation where the government and companies can easily track people. The same situation would be with crypto, which was designed to be anonymous but used in another way.

Don’t lie to yourself, bro.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#644

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

I don't understand the willingness of the masses to willingly give governments complete access to all of their transaction data. At least in the U.S. bank transactions are feebly masked by institutions. I have no doubt the government gets bank transaction data, but with Pix, it's just making it even easier to monitor what you're doing. Is it that the transparency makes it feel good? No middleman selling it or giving…

Well, unlike cryptocurrency, it works reliably and quickly, does not require you to manage your own keys, and provides recourse if things go wrong. Those are pretty strong points in its favour.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have bizarre logic here. For example, in a topic discussed about GPUs, someone would say that it's not possible to run databases on GPUs, so GPUs don't have any chance of succeeding. > How much do you trust your government with your money? Do you trust crypto companies? Mt. Gox, FTX, Bybit… Do you know that crypto companies must follow government rules, regulations, and laws? Russians were banned from using many…

I would say your post has the logical flaws, not confronting any of the core criticism and instead misdirecting to other topics. Creating efficient payment rails for its own currency is one of the most obvious roles for government imo. If the government provisions the currency, why would they not also provision the infrastructure (like the printing of the paper money). That said, you’ve not offered a good rebuttal to…

I don't offer any solution for the problems you mentioned, and I don't think it is possible.

If we want to have global money and a global payment system, they would be controlled by governments, international organizations, God, Devil, Cthulhu, Spaghetti Monster...

There is no magical solution. We, as a society, need to establish competing social institutions, and try to control them, and try to force them to compete. There is no solver bullet.

Don’t lie to yourself, bro.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't even be penniless these days, you need a fancy electronic device, a data plan and reliable access to an outlet before you can beg for charity. Sad world.

And then people won't give you money because "look at them with their phones! I'm sure that could have paid rent for a month"

Maybe 1/10th of the rent for a month. Second-hand crappy phones are real damn cheap. I know someone who can't afford rent even if they paid for nothing else, and they go through one every 2-3 months.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could donate to your chosen homeless assistance charity and just carry cards that explain how to get assistance from the same org.

Maybe not true everywhere but in all the towns I have lived in the homeless were well aware of organizations that provide assistance. No need to carry a card about it.

Indeed, and there's usually a reason why they're on the street instead of going to those organizations (justifiable to a random other person or not).

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#648

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

Love that you tell us how amazing the government run digital currency but end it with a throw away statement about how the open source version will never "stand a chance". Just like how no one uses Linux and Firefox died 20 years ago.

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Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds similar to China / WeChat situation, from what I've read previously

It's now quite trivial to connect a foreign credit/debit card to Wepay, and it worked flawlessly on a recent trip. (This was very much not the case only a few years ago.)

It might have worked for you but it's still not trivial. There's many hoops to jump through still like random ID verifications, many banks not being supported to be linked, account locks that can only be unblocked by having a WeChat contact vouch for you etc.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#650
post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s an idea, get rid of cryptocurrencies and the need for KYC basically vanishes.

If you get rid of cocaine, the need for rehab centers also vanishes. There is no way to “get rid of cryptocurrencies” at this point save for shutting off the internet. It is not within the power of the state to prohibit, any more than prostitution or cocaine.

Sure, there would be a black market for it, but that black market would be a lot smaller than the open market we have right now.

There’s plenty of legal ways of exchanging cryptocurrencies for real currencies, shutting those down would be a good start.

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