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Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

economist.com

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Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#691

Post by kyrra »

vitorgrs wrote: post #468
dormento wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brazilian here. - no card - technically not a specific app, its a payment method that any app with a checkout flow (for example) can chose to implement. - you register some id with your financial institution of choice (any of CPF - equivalent to SSN, CNPJ - for businesses, phone number, email or a randomly generated key). - keys are fully portable, as in you can revoke em or change the bank institution they're associ…

There's NFC support now... You can now use Pix inside Google Pay (with NFC or QR code etc as well).

Technically Google Wallet. There is no GPay app in Brazil.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#692

Post by senorrib »

alephnerd wrote: post #91
earnesti wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> require ID, zero privacy, usually government sanctioned > Unfortunately systems that don't have those requirements are going to be money laundering channels. I wish it wasn't such a big concern but it's unavoidable. There same requirements also make the likelihood of these systems scaling beyong one jurisdiction very unlikely. Tourists don't want to set up a payment account for every country they visit. Or other w…

> As Visa and MC work globally, I'm betting that the dominance from those will continue. China, India, Brazil, Russia, Japan, South Korea, and others are all trying to expand their own transaction networks. While it's still piecemeal, a Chinese or Indian tourist in Thailand can use UnionPay or UPI to transact without using Visa/Mastercard, a Russian tourist in Vietnam can use Mir, a Brazilian in Argentina can use Pix…

You can absolutely not use Pix in Argentina. Maybe some street performer will, but most places barely accept cards, let alone pix. Cash is still king there.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#693

Post by moooo99 »

palmotea wrote: post #215
nirui wrote: post #206

I'm thinking, maybe controversially, centralized national payment service like this should be government-run based on my experience with Alipay which is a digital payment service in China. Due to it's commercial origin, Alipay is filled with unwanted ads and traps. Almost every time I made a payment with it, a pop up prompts me to enlist their Ant Financial LOAN service either now, or being prompted for the same ques…

> I'm thinking, maybe controversially, centralized national payment service like this should be government-run based on my experience with Alipay which is a digital payment service in China. After dealing with many private sector services, I think a lot of things should be government run. For instance: weather apps. Private sector ones are just a vector to track and sell your location data, and they rely on governmen…

> For instance: weather apps. Private sector ones are just a vector to track and sell your location data, and they rely on government data anyway.

Or you do it like we do here in Germany and take the dumbest route you can imagine.

We had a very well working publicly funded weather app from DWD (Deutscher Wetter Dienst). The primarily purpose of this app was to warn from extreme weather conditions, but it also included an ad free (because publicly funded) and rather accurate forecast.

Then a private entity sued claiming that the DWD app also providing weather information is unfair competition for private competitors. The won in court and now the publicly funded DWD app has a paywall for a previously free feature.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#694

Post by breakyerself »

The government already spends money administering the original payment system of cash and coins. I don't see why electronic payments shouldn't also be administered by the government. Letting visa handle electronic payments has turned them into a private tax collector.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#695

Post by lolinder »

DANmode wrote: post #619
ilirium wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have bizarre logic here. For example, in a topic discussed about GPUs, someone would say that it's not possible to run databases on GPUs, so GPUs don't have any chance of succeeding. > How much do you trust your government with your money? Do you trust crypto companies? Mt. Gox, FTX, Bybit… Do you know that crypto companies must follow government rules, regulations, and laws? Russians were banned from using many…

They said cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance, the conversation is supposed to be about cryptocurrency technology, but you're talking about the gross financial companies that operate in cryptocurrency as if they ARE cryptocurrency. Not just one feature of its existence. Common conflation.

> the conversation is supposed to be about cryptocurrency technology,

> but you're talking about the gross financial companies that operate in cryptocurrency as if they ARE cryptocurrency.

That's because the middlemen are inevitable and they work the way they do for a reason—governments won't let them work any other way.

Cryptocurrency is a technological solution for a human problem, and you can't analyze the impact of the technology divorced from the human reality without losing so much resolution as to make your analysis meaningless.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#696

Post by ty6853 »

galactus wrote: post #623
ty6853 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless of course you try to transmit it to someplace your bank or the government doesn't like, or the bank has dumb AML controls. In which case the transaction will likely get held up if it can be sent at all. If you try to transfer from somewhere boring like from the USA to Canada of course you can send $25k no problem (most of the time anyway, my bank has interrogated me and locked up my account before for attempti…

“ Meanwhile you could transfer $25k in crypto to Dubai” Thats a use case 99.99999999999999999% of humanity does not care at all about.

Dubai / UAE is about the largest per capita inflow of high net worth individuals, and even on an absolute basis has one of the highest immigration inflow of high net worth individuals.

Yes if you are poor as dirt and can just take your life savings of The data pretty well speaks for itself. Humanity with money cares a lot about escaping capital controls. This is inviolable, the more the banking system handicaps itself the more capital flows into less regulated products.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#698

Post by irusensei »

kardos wrote: post #346
welshwelsh wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should focus on getting rid of KYC, instead of giving up on privacy and security.

Indeed. KYC has a purpose though -- prevention of fraud, money laundering, etc. Getting rid of KYC without a similarly-effective solution for those things seems unlikely. Ideas?

That’s not really true. Most financial crimes are big operations facilitated by banks. Criminals love KYC because that’s a chance to make their operations seem legit.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#699

Post by enaaem »

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #363
SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Now, try to use Pix outside of Brazil - it's not even used in other Mercosur countries, what's the chance of having that adopted in other countries... And, that's problem #1. How much do you trust your government with your money? A system like Pix don't stand a chance to get a worldwide adoption - maybe people are naive but governments won't unify to adopt a common system cont…

If you don't trust your government then you don't own anything, since it's the government that enforces and arbiters property rights. The fact that you own a home is only written on some piece of paper and you trust the government to enforce it.

Crypto is only worth something because you can convert it to fiat and with that fiat can sign fiat denominated contracts that are enforced by the government.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#700

Post by irusensei »

mmooss wrote: post #599
SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

Are you worried about the power the central bank has? What if they deny service to or apprehend the assets of people they politically dislike? Also couldn't they crush any hope of anyone's profitable business? Could a person or business function without it? What about in ten years? What if they track people by their transaction and built profiles of them? They could essentially make it too dangerous to do business to…

I don’t know why you’ve been downvoted. In fact in Brazil people got their financial operations restricted for expressing their opinions on the internet. Pix is an authoritarian government wet dream.
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